Just a side note. I started growing mushrooms a couple of years ago.
Very interesting and fulfilling hobby, they are incredibly interesting critters. Takes a little bit of dedication to get started but once you start seeing them fruit and making your own substrate it's quite inexpensive and a lot of fun. I have a feeling lots of folks in this community would really like it.
Basic starter package is a 'monotub', selection of spores, grain for spawning, substrate for fruiting and miscellaneous bits and bobs for handling, hydrating, maintaining temps and cultivating. North Spore and Midwest Grow Kits are both reputable and reliable suppliers.
There are a few companies in this space, notably Ecovative, who have been trying to make mycelium-based packaging for almost two decades.
The problem is that it takes around 7 days for each piece of packaging to "grow", and the finished part is heavy and not compressible so it adds significant cost in manufacturing, storage and transit. And these costs don't get any better with scale.
For those reasons, mycelium packaging hasn't seen much adoption beyond being used as a marketing story for high-priced small goods. Environmentally forward companies have tended towards paper-based solutions like molded fiber.
Two packages made from mycelium can behave very differently because “mycelium composite” is a category, not a single recipe. Particle size, fibre content, and the ratio of substrate to mycelium all change density. Higher density generally brings higher compressive strength and better edge definition, but it also increases weight and can reduce the springy cushioning that protective packaging needs.
Truly green governments should outlaw plastic production and favour PLA bioplastics and this sort of thing. There's enough plastic in the ocean already.
My sister worked as an intern on mycelium as fertilizer. Basically, using cover crops create a small mycelium layer that helps plant grow and reduce fertilizer use (by fixing nitrogen probably). Her job was to find molecules that would make the mycelium, and only the mycelium, grow quicker.
That's a very interesting field to study, and it seems promising.
Looks really cool, though I don't know if the name is conducive to business. With just the URL I would not have clicked to see that the business is about.
Ironically I only came to this HN post and clicked on the URL because of the name. At first I misunderstood the description and thought they were doing industrial-scale packaging of magical mushroom mycelium.
Years ago I ran an ecommerce site for gourmet and medicinal mushrooms. We certainly had nothing to do with illegal mushrooms, but I liberally sprinkled the word 'magic' where ever possible. Also the words 'Ann+Arbor'... It seemed to drive some traffic.
There are already companies that use packaging made from formed paper and sugarcane. I would be interested to see what mycelium packaging offers over this.
Molasses was cheap because it was the packing material for plate glass - which was only made in England. Place your plate glass in a barrel, fill it with molasses and you can ship it to North America. Just wash off the glass and you're good to go.
I believe the mushroom packaging is more like a foam, so it may be able to better protect products. Additionally, it may have a more "premium" feeling/appearance vs. pulp packaging.
Looking at the images, it looks less premium to me than the smoother mouled paper inserts I've seen on electronic products. You could be right on with the foam aspect though.
Well there are multiple types of molded paper inserts. Egg carton-type material on the cheap end, and that super smooth stuff that Apple uses on the other (these generally have additives in them - they aren't just paper). In terms of "premium"ness this sits in the middle.
It sounds good but will this ever scale enough?
Plastics are just so freaking cheap that anything that wants become a serious alternative (aside from being a marketing gimmick) needs to be very cheap. I honestly have my doubts but I'm excited that people are looking for alternatives
A trademark sets your brand apart from competitors. If your competitors are other brands of mushrooms, then "Mushroom" is too broad. But if you're trying to distinguish yourself from other brands of packaging, it might work.
If it got litigated and I were the judge, I'd be concerned they were trying to abuse trademark to get patent-like protection. In the narrow packaging market, another mushroom packaging competitor would have trouble talking about its product without mentioning the word "mushroom" and drawing the ire of Mushroom™ lawyers.
Not certainly. A LARGE number of fungi grow just fine without manure. I think this is a common misconception since agaricus bisporus (portobello, bella, white, cremini, button) need it to grow well, and it is the most commonly human-grown fungus by a long shot.
Not sure if they were the first, or whatever, but this really seems like a breakthrough technology / methodology. How many cardboard boxes do we use a day? The mind boggles.
This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes, though it could certainly be used in places we already use cardboard inserts. But probably still need a cardboard box on the outside. Thankfully we can grow those too!!
> This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes
It seems rigid though, more akin to cardboard than soft styrofoam. I don't see anything about how dampening it is, but from the pictures I also assumed it was more like cardboard than styrofoam. Maybe the color is deceiving me though.
Under "Features" it explicitly calls out polystyrene as what it is meant to replace, and under "Performance" they claim to provide for clients "that demand the same technical performance as the polystyrene we replace"
Nice, thanks for the link. Somehow, this weekend I’ve gone into the rabbit hole of mycelium packaging, a completely new and interesting topic for me. Need to check this out before my fascination wears off.
I don't think this is better for the environment than cardboard (if anything it is probably worse as a direct replacement for cardboard because cardboard already has a robust recycling supplychain). Rather, it is a replacement for plastic foam.
By which time should we expect US administration to post a video on X about “good classic” plastic bags and ban in the US any attempt to replace them? :)
Sounds like a great product, but a tough name in a business messaging context. The Customer Acquisition Cost for people that missed business culture fit rules can be extraordinarily high.
Maybe some sort of additional corporate alias name with "Biocomposite" or "Sustainable" packaging related messaging. Also, one may want to contact Uline with a set of product sku that already fit generic shipping boxes for high-value items like wine bottles and laptop screens.
Just a side note. I started growing mushrooms a couple of years ago.
Very interesting and fulfilling hobby, they are incredibly interesting critters. Takes a little bit of dedication to get started but once you start seeing them fruit and making your own substrate it's quite inexpensive and a lot of fun. I have a feeling lots of folks in this community would really like it.
Basic starter package is a 'monotub', selection of spores, grain for spawning, substrate for fruiting and miscellaneous bits and bobs for handling, hydrating, maintaining temps and cultivating. North Spore and Midwest Grow Kits are both reputable and reliable suppliers.
Tons of resources on YouTube as you might expect. One of my favorites is Southwest Mushrooms - https://www.youtube.com/@SouthwestMushrooms
There are a few companies in this space, notably Ecovative, who have been trying to make mycelium-based packaging for almost two decades.
The problem is that it takes around 7 days for each piece of packaging to "grow", and the finished part is heavy and not compressible so it adds significant cost in manufacturing, storage and transit. And these costs don't get any better with scale.
For those reasons, mycelium packaging hasn't seen much adoption beyond being used as a marketing story for high-priced small goods. Environmentally forward companies have tended towards paper-based solutions like molded fiber.
Heavy?
Two packages made from mycelium can behave very differently because “mycelium composite” is a category, not a single recipe. Particle size, fibre content, and the ratio of substrate to mycelium all change density. Higher density generally brings higher compressive strength and better edge definition, but it also increases weight and can reduce the springy cushioning that protective packaging needs.
Source: https://dirobots.com/en/mycelium-strength/
Like real mold on fiber or
No. Think what egg cartons are made of.
Truly green governments should outlaw plastic production and favour PLA bioplastics and this sort of thing. There's enough plastic in the ocean already.
My sister worked as an intern on mycelium as fertilizer. Basically, using cover crops create a small mycelium layer that helps plant grow and reduce fertilizer use (by fixing nitrogen probably). Her job was to find molecules that would make the mycelium, and only the mycelium, grow quicker.
That's a very interesting field to study, and it seems promising.
Looks really cool, though I don't know if the name is conducive to business. With just the URL I would not have clicked to see that the business is about.
Ironically I only came to this HN post and clicked on the URL because of the name. At first I misunderstood the description and thought they were doing industrial-scale packaging of magical mushroom mycelium.
Yeah same, I'm kinda sad now it's only packaging.
That's a URL bait!
Any PR is good PR, I guess?
Years ago I ran an ecommerce site for gourmet and medicinal mushrooms. We certainly had nothing to do with illegal mushrooms, but I liberally sprinkled the word 'magic' where ever possible. Also the words 'Ann+Arbor'... It seemed to drive some traffic.
There are already companies that use packaging made from formed paper and sugarcane. I would be interested to see what mycelium packaging offers over this.
E.g. https://www.jishan-group.com/pulp-products.
In the old days, wood shaving and even popcorn were the packing material of choice.
The reason styrofoam is used is because it's cheaper (main) and it doesn't decompose when wet.
Molasses was cheap because it was the packing material for plate glass - which was only made in England. Place your plate glass in a barrel, fill it with molasses and you can ship it to North America. Just wash off the glass and you're good to go.
I believe the mushroom packaging is more like a foam, so it may be able to better protect products. Additionally, it may have a more "premium" feeling/appearance vs. pulp packaging.
Looking at the images, it looks less premium to me than the smoother mouled paper inserts I've seen on electronic products. You could be right on with the foam aspect though.
Well there are multiple types of molded paper inserts. Egg carton-type material on the cheap end, and that super smooth stuff that Apple uses on the other (these generally have additives in them - they aren't just paper). In terms of "premium"ness this sits in the middle.
Even egg cartons look more premium than the pictures in TFA.
It sounds good but will this ever scale enough? Plastics are just so freaking cheap that anything that wants become a serious alternative (aside from being a marketing gimmick) needs to be very cheap. I honestly have my doubts but I'm excited that people are looking for alternatives
How is Mushroom something you can put (r) after?
A trademark sets your brand apart from competitors. If your competitors are other brands of mushrooms, then "Mushroom" is too broad. But if you're trying to distinguish yourself from other brands of packaging, it might work.
If it got litigated and I were the judge, I'd be concerned they were trying to abuse trademark to get patent-like protection. In the narrow packaging market, another mushroom packaging competitor would have trouble talking about its product without mentioning the word "mushroom" and drawing the ire of Mushroom™ lawyers.
Disclaimer: lawyer law blah blah
Well, how is "Windows"?
Some mushrooms, like many oyster species, are saprotrophs and will grow on just about any waste organic material with enough cellulose.
Certainly dung. A common substrate for growing mushroom is a straw or shredded wood depending on the species plus manure.
Not certainly. A LARGE number of fungi grow just fine without manure. I think this is a common misconception since agaricus bisporus (portobello, bella, white, cremini, button) need it to grow well, and it is the most commonly human-grown fungus by a long shot.
Most commonly grown? What, no love for yeast?!
Ahh, true. Didn't think about that one.
It says it is the woody core of hemp.
Sounds like a thing you could just make paper and cardboard out of directly...
The hemp is part of the finished product, so its probably intentional they picked something so fibrous.
Per the webpage: "The mycelium binds the agricultural waste together, so it can be baked into durable protective packaging"
Not sure if they were the first, or whatever, but this really seems like a breakthrough technology / methodology. How many cardboard boxes do we use a day? The mind boggles.
Totally cool stuff.
This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes, though it could certainly be used in places we already use cardboard inserts. But probably still need a cardboard box on the outside. Thankfully we can grow those too!!
> This seems more like a replacement for Styrofoam rather than cardboard boxes
It seems rigid though, more akin to cardboard than soft styrofoam. I don't see anything about how dampening it is, but from the pictures I also assumed it was more like cardboard than styrofoam. Maybe the color is deceiving me though.
https://magicalmushroom.com/mushroom-packaging
Under "Features" it explicitly calls out polystyrene as what it is meant to replace, and under "Performance" they claim to provide for clients "that demand the same technical performance as the polystyrene we replace"
Dell have been using mycelium packaging for a while now - 2014 maybe? created in the US. Very interested to see this space go.
Dell (and IKEA, and others) source from Ecovative who have been working on this for a while: https://ecovative.com/
Nice, thanks for the link. Somehow, this weekend I’ve gone into the rabbit hole of mycelium packaging, a completely new and interesting topic for me. Need to check this out before my fascination wears off.
https://magicalmushroom.com/mushroom-packaging
Under Features, it lists polystyrene products as what it replaces, not cardboard.
Cardboard is mostly renewable, it's the applications where we combine it with plastic where alternatives are needed.
I don't think this is better for the environment than cardboard (if anything it is probably worse as a direct replacement for cardboard because cardboard already has a robust recycling supplychain). Rather, it is a replacement for plastic foam.
This isn't different from cardboard. This is made from mushrooms, cardboard is made from trees. The real problem is plastics.
Nice, similar to https://www.traceless.eu who are pioneering biopolymers from grain residue, fitting into existing machines and workflows.
They already supplied famous Rock am Ring festival with friespickers last year!
By which time should we expect US administration to post a video on X about “good classic” plastic bags and ban in the US any attempt to replace them? :)
Very exciting!
Going on a little PR adventure today are we?
This site is run by venture capitalists, I think it's part of the package as long as they don't pretend otherwise.
Yeah, I know it's just funny to see the coordinated effort across multiple sites.
Or, someone saw it on reddit, thought it was cool, and posted here? Aka classic going viral event, without anything nefarious.
Now if they can get a mushroom that eats plastic to use it as fuel to grow the mycelium that would be even better.
Is it edible?
Maybe not by humans, but definitely by the various things living in your compost pile.
I like the web site. Using on mobile. Not as bland as most. I normally don't like animation but this one is done nicely.
cool
Niiice name you stupid fucks. Another bad choice by startup dorks.
Sounds like a great product, but a tough name in a business messaging context. The Customer Acquisition Cost for people that missed business culture fit rules can be extraordinarily high.
Maybe some sort of additional corporate alias name with "Biocomposite" or "Sustainable" packaging related messaging. Also, one may want to contact Uline with a set of product sku that already fit generic shipping boxes for high-value items like wine bottles and laptop screens.
Have a great day =3
how's this Europe's given factories (and all likeliness all else) is in UK?
https://magicalmushroom.com/manufacturing/the-factories
geographically, perhaps, not EU though. and not relevant to EU where there are at least several similar companies such as
Grown.bio - Netherlands PermaFungi - Brussels (New 1,400 m² factory) RongoDesign - Romania Biomyc - Bulgaria
perhaps more. So this title is super misleading - not first, not Europe's, but perhaps UK's
> geographically, perhaps, not EU though
I figure that's why they said Europe's first industrial scale; not the EU's first industrial scale...
> how's this Europe's given factories (and all likeliness all else) is in UK?
You know that a company can own factories in other countries, yes?
So which company owns what, how about you read the homepage twice, and we can discuss the facts.
Thanks for the links ! Good to have an overview of the current crop turns out there is a factory near me
The UK is still in Europe, even if it's left the EU.
It’s written in the linked page:
“Europe's first industrial-scale mycelium packaging producer”.
EU <> Europe