Not exactly on topic, but I have to endorse mise; it's a really, really great tool that solves a number of different problems.
Example: I was recently working on a large project that needed a specific version of Python, and there's a lot of ways to solve that, but mise was an easy and robust one. But also, the project needed a bunch of different tools to build it, deploy it, do local dev, perform certain maintenance tasks like rotating secrets, work through certain operational runbooks, etc., and mise was an easy and robust way to solve that too. Once you know everyone on the team will have the same tools available, if a runbook would be simpler if you could assume everyone has jq installed, well, just add it your the project's mise config, and now they do. And then when I switched to working on a Java service, and then later a Node service, well, obviously mise was an easy and robust solution there too.
By contrast, I made an effort a year or two back to adopt nix, which (despite starting from a very different place) solves a lot of similar problems, but found it a bit daunting (large, complex, poorly documented, and felt hard to partially adopt), and while I love the concept of nix, as a practical matter I ended up abandoning the effort. But mise was really easy to understand, adopt, and progressively add to an existing project without unduly impacting other team members. (Example: Mise will read existing verion manager configs from tools like sdkman, which makes adopting it over time easier.)
It's got to the point now where I'm using mise in place of Homebrew or other system level package managers for basically all CLI tools. Which feels weird when I think about it, but mise genuinely just feels like the better solution. If mise has a flaw, I haven't stubbed my toe on it yet.
10th most downloaded Homebrew formula and the maintainer makes ~$600 / month. Not very encouraging for people who are thinking to follow the same path…
We just started exploring Mise as a (much) simpler alternative to Nix + Bazel for a polyglot monorepo.
One of my concerns was about how well maintained Mise would be given that it's mostly a single maintainer, so I think this is good news in that respect.
Likewise looking to adopt mise at work, have a PR nearly there and especially with all the LLM/skills CLIs, mise looks well positioned. I've been using it for a long time personally and is a delight to work with.
Curious given polyglot monorepo and bazel, does mise have something that solves the build graph/caching stuff that IIUC comes with Bazel or is that something that's not needed for the monorepo you help maintain?
I'm a massive fan of Wireit and its caching behavior, so I'm looking for something to live up to that. I have more testing to do. I think Mise defaults to mtime-keyed cache but has an option for content hashing, which it what Wireit uses and makes it quick to undo a change and get a cache hit.
As a proponent of both Nix and Bazel, unless you need them for a specific reason you should totally use Mise. I recommend Mise to everyone.
If everyone on your team gets Mise and you're starting to feel pain at the periphery then it can definitely make sense to adopt a more elaborate toolchain orchestrator.
Devenv is "mise but nix" and is very good. It is currently undergoing a big migration though, so still a few rough edges. I highly recommend checking it out if you find yourself wanting nix at all.
I don't know what to call this - a "freelancer launch"? It is the best executed one I've seen, though. Maybe even a black-mark on OSS if it does not go well.
> Maybe even a black-mark on OSS if it does not go well.
No, because realistically, this is the opposite of what corporations want. If a project is only being maintained by one or two people, that’s a risk, pure and simple. So you look somewhere else for something that matches your needs, with a more sustainable story.
Nothing against the author, but what he’s describing is a business model - just one that’s likely to bring in a negligible amount of money. This is less about open source and more about what kinds of projects society is willing to pay people to work on.
Man, that's a weird looking "f" in the font. Why does it have a tail? Feels like someone is trying to inject a company logo/function symbol into the otherwise normal-looking characters.
The Mise website makes way more sense to me now. I suppose some artistic license is justified when you're at the cutting-edge of the CLI aesthetic and what not.
Congratulations! I think that a lot of the value will be in the judgement of the maintainer about the marginal next feature (and saying no to all those other features) ... if software is a stream then the value is in what gets into the stream. That is an AI resistant value and if you can provide it for your project.
Good luck, and I hope it works out! Make sure you are ready to ride the roller coaster of highs and lows, as there are going to be many. Remember that your time and experience are the most valuable things you have - make sure you're in control of both.
I had the pleasure of working with Jeff in ... I want to say 2012 - he taught me so much, is a fabulous developer and teammate, and we had some great times together.
Not exactly on topic, but I have to endorse mise; it's a really, really great tool that solves a number of different problems.
Example: I was recently working on a large project that needed a specific version of Python, and there's a lot of ways to solve that, but mise was an easy and robust one. But also, the project needed a bunch of different tools to build it, deploy it, do local dev, perform certain maintenance tasks like rotating secrets, work through certain operational runbooks, etc., and mise was an easy and robust way to solve that too. Once you know everyone on the team will have the same tools available, if a runbook would be simpler if you could assume everyone has jq installed, well, just add it your the project's mise config, and now they do. And then when I switched to working on a Java service, and then later a Node service, well, obviously mise was an easy and robust solution there too.
By contrast, I made an effort a year or two back to adopt nix, which (despite starting from a very different place) solves a lot of similar problems, but found it a bit daunting (large, complex, poorly documented, and felt hard to partially adopt), and while I love the concept of nix, as a practical matter I ended up abandoning the effort. But mise was really easy to understand, adopt, and progressively add to an existing project without unduly impacting other team members. (Example: Mise will read existing verion manager configs from tools like sdkman, which makes adopting it over time easier.)
It's got to the point now where I'm using mise in place of Homebrew or other system level package managers for basically all CLI tools. Which feels weird when I think about it, but mise genuinely just feels like the better solution. If mise has a flaw, I haven't stubbed my toe on it yet.
This is great news! I use mise everyday - it's basically muscle memory to type "mise" before a command in many of my projects now thanks to mise tasks
10th most downloaded Homebrew formula and the maintainer makes ~$600 / month. Not very encouraging for people who are thinking to follow the same path…
How is that counted ? Is it unique installs or counting updates as well It is very very frequently updated
We just started exploring Mise as a (much) simpler alternative to Nix + Bazel for a polyglot monorepo.
One of my concerns was about how well maintained Mise would be given that it's mostly a single maintainer, so I think this is good news in that respect.
Good luck to Jeff!
Likewise looking to adopt mise at work, have a PR nearly there and especially with all the LLM/skills CLIs, mise looks well positioned. I've been using it for a long time personally and is a delight to work with.
Curious given polyglot monorepo and bazel, does mise have something that solves the build graph/caching stuff that IIUC comes with Bazel or is that something that's not needed for the monorepo you help maintain?
Yeah, Mise has caching: https://mise.jdx.dev/cache-behavior.html
I'm a massive fan of Wireit and its caching behavior, so I'm looking for something to live up to that. I have more testing to do. I think Mise defaults to mtime-keyed cache but has an option for content hashing, which it what Wireit uses and makes it quick to undo a change and get a cache hit.
As a proponent of both Nix and Bazel, unless you need them for a specific reason you should totally use Mise. I recommend Mise to everyone.
If everyone on your team gets Mise and you're starting to feel pain at the periphery then it can definitely make sense to adopt a more elaborate toolchain orchestrator.
Devenv is "mise but nix" and is very good. It is currently undergoing a big migration though, so still a few rough edges. I highly recommend checking it out if you find yourself wanting nix at all.
I don't know what to call this - a "freelancer launch"? It is the best executed one I've seen, though. Maybe even a black-mark on OSS if it does not go well.
> Maybe even a black-mark on OSS if it does not go well.
No, because realistically, this is the opposite of what corporations want. If a project is only being maintained by one or two people, that’s a risk, pure and simple. So you look somewhere else for something that matches your needs, with a more sustainable story.
Nothing against the author, but what he’s describing is a business model - just one that’s likely to bring in a negligible amount of money. This is less about open source and more about what kinds of projects society is willing to pay people to work on.
Man, that's a weird looking "f" in the font. Why does it have a tail? Feels like someone is trying to inject a company logo/function symbol into the otherwise normal-looking characters.
> So I left Figma to work on these full time.
The Mise website makes way more sense to me now. I suppose some artistic license is justified when you're at the cutting-edge of the CLI aesthetic and what not.
Pleased for him. I've been an enthusiastic mise user for quite some time, and am keeping an eye on how aube shakes out.
Congratulations! I think that a lot of the value will be in the judgement of the maintainer about the marginal next feature (and saying no to all those other features) ... if software is a stream then the value is in what gets into the stream. That is an AI resistant value and if you can provide it for your project.
Good luck, and I hope it works out! Make sure you are ready to ride the roller coaster of highs and lows, as there are going to be many. Remember that your time and experience are the most valuable things you have - make sure you're in control of both.
I hope this works out - I love mise and sponsor on GitHub already.
I had the pleasure of working with Jeff in ... I want to say 2012 - he taught me so much, is a fabulous developer and teammate, and we had some great times together.
Edit: mise rocks.
Oooh, bad idea. Bun guy is saying OSS will be written exclusively by AI in 2027, with human authors banned.
Are people dinging you because they think you're taking Bun seriously, or because they think you're not?
I thought it was snarky and added nothing to the discussion.
Probably the former