it gets easier but not by much. I wouldn't have it any other way. Been 15 years and I don't want to ever forget. My Mom is showing your Mom around and they are trading stories of what brats we were :-)
Or you're in any timezone significantly ahead of the US (so like over 40% of the world's population). It's already 11.35pm here in India, and most moms (and reasonable adults) are already asleep. China/SE Asia/Jp etc are even further ahead.
Yes, it pre-dates the gift card (and gift) industry. I seem to recall being told it was to allow servants to go home to see their mothers. See how vaguely I framed that.
This is not true on just so many levels. Lots of people have mothers not worthy of the name. I don't know exactly what fatherhood being a theory and motherhood being a fact means but I struggle to find any that isn't offensive to fathers.
O'Rourke was a conservative satirist (back when that could even be a thing), was semi-famous for his long term appearances on NPR's Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, and was an advocate for gonzo journalism.
I take his quote to mean that motherhood is more difficult than fatherhood, especially back in the time he was active. The quote should, I feel, not be observed as a factual statement, but rather in the vein of his politically based humor. Largely, it was a simpler time.
I was a stay at home dad for a number of years and my observation is that kids never get over a bad relationship with their mother (also informed by knowing a number of adults with mothers that weren’t that good for them); any one can benefit from a good relationship with their father, but it’s a little more optional for the most kids. Ready to benefit from a supportive dad but ready to go it without that sort of helpfulness.
Why? What is special about being a mom? Are moms better than non moms? Lots of booze and a one night stand will create a mom, right? Not exactly a special feat
What's special - it's the person from whom most normal people have received the most love and care. It's the people who do the most work to keep humanity moving forward.
Are moms better than non moms - by and large yes.
I am sorry about what your life's story must have been like. Luckily I can't relate.
>It's the people who do the most work to keep humanity moving forward.
How do you define "moving forward"? Just having more people?
What a strange person you seem to be to think that moms are better than non moms simply because they are moms. You seem to have a child's view of the world
That's not really true. One would like it to be, but it's not. We are taught to worship biological mothers in society so that people keep having kids and thus feeding the tax collector, military machine, cleaning toilets etc. Take veterans for example- we put them on a pedestal so that more kids sign up to feed the meat grinder in the hope of having a "veteran" car sticker one day.
When my mom remarried, her new husband started to manipulate her and isolate her from other relatives, trying to turn everyone against each other. The last time I met her, I was basically talking to two copies of him.
I've already dealt with the fact that I will not get my mom back.
Writing here because your reply to me (“I choose this guy’s dead mom”) had me laughing out loud. Just saying, even though the comment got killed, it landed well.
Apparently, according to wikipedia, we have a "mother's day" in the first sunday in may. I've seen nothing in the news about it and wasn't aware of its existence.
March 8 is international women’s day. The most ignored of all holidays by US culture. To an almost hilarious degree.
My partner frequently brags that she’s the only of her friends and coworkers, in 10+ years, who has ever gotten flowers for women’s day. Meanwhile even Uber drivers have wished her a happy women’s day in various heavy foreign accents.
Fathers in the US can go out in public doing the absolute minimal amount of parenting work with a kid and bask in the warmth of approval from all observers.
Like May 1st which is snubbed in favor of (non-organized?) Labor Day, and, well, the metric system which has somehow still not been adopted in the US...
> Like May 1st which is snubbed in favor of (non-organized?) Labor Day
Oh don’t even get me started! Labor Day was specifically set for a different day than May 1st to discourage solidarity with international labor movements. Wouldn’t want people to feel a camaraderie with the communists and socialists abroad
Flowers for women's day is another ultimately weird tradition in many countries. Weird because the point of women's day is equality and not to be treated like our little special ladies. I always half jokingly said a more suitable gift would be a mini wrench or a screwdriver.
Quick reminder that not all mothers are good people that we must keep in touch with. For people recovering from a rough childhood, here are a couple of resources that may be useful to you:
1. "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Gibson.
It is a little frustrating how those without this perspective react with shock when they discover that some of us have gone no contact with one of our parents. I was chatting to some muslim street preacher the other day and he told me that respect for your parents was a pillar of the faith, so that and my inability to grow a beard means I could never pick the Islam.
Thank you for saying this. It needs saying as society finds it hard to acknowledge. My children are now no contact with their mother but it is painful.
I grew up in a toxic household (my mom cheated when I was two, my stepfather was very abusive towards my mom, and my mom was always condescending and materialistic and kept using me to get money from my birth father, my birth father has depression and I just never felt any love from him), and I now barely keep in touch with both my parents, the first one hit home.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of this. Mother's Day can be intensely painful for people who had or have abusive or neglectful mothers. I think this should be acknowledged before the blanket advice of "call your mom" is given.
Also, Mother's Day is May 9th next year. If you do want to mail a card next year, I recommend making a calendar entry now to remind you to buy (or make) a card and mail it so it arrives in time, or at least least make a calendar entry to call her on the day of.
I lost my father last year because of complications from severe Alzheimer's. When I saw this, I thought my mother is still with us, and I need to be grateful for that. I love you mum!
Literally it does, "culture" is an excuse to hide some shitty behavior sometimes, many aspects of many culture are pure trash and must change. (I live in Asia).
Child marriage is an example, very few will argue that it doesn't make them bad parents for selling their children, but it's completely alright in many cultures, nope, garbage culture.
And what you say about every parents in Asia is utter-nonsense btw and it's not the reality, you clearly don't understand a word of what you are writing.
Those are your morals though. There’s no reason other groups of people have to abide by it. You can force it militarily if you want, but that’s about it. Other groups think divorce is one of the biggest sins, but you continue to do it. Other people think dedicating your life to consumerism is the biggest evil. Why is child marriage and opposition to non biological sexual relations that different (for what it’s worth I’m totally against child marriage and completely for people to sleep with whoever they want to). It’s all relative. You’re trapped in your headspace, listen to me closely IT’S ALL RELATIVE.
Just say that’s the way you want the world to be, not some unassailable universal truth.
Obviously it is. Millions of years of human society thought marriage/sex with 13 year olds was fine until suddenly a couple hundred years ago. Yes I know that's not true pedophilia, but real child marriage was also quite common and considered normal and not immoral.
Fwiw I am not a moral subjectivist, but this is HN; if we're pretending cultures are relatively equal in value and empiricism is the expected outlook, then we need to acknowledge pedophilia is not historically reviled.
Yes, thank you for restating part of my comment. If you'd care to engage with the substance of the rest of the point please feel free at any time. This isn't Reddit where you get to just write an istophobe aspersion and collect the upvotes.
Sorry, I don't think there is value in debating the morality of an unambiguously immoral action. There's no value to give it weight, the whole premise is flawed.
Well I'm glad you/we are more enlightened than the hundred billion previous humans who all had complex moral reasoning facilities but failed spectacularly to use them. I guess Aristotle and Plato and Aquinas were just idiots who couldn't see the unambiguous, objectively correct moral standards that you know of intrinsically.
Edit: serves me right for phone posting; I have you muted on the desktop with an extension, seemingly for good reason
I don't know you, but I'm happy that you get to be you. If you wouldn't be friends with your family members, then why would you spend time with them? As far as parents go, they chose to have me, I didn't choose them. Not all people are good, and just because you are related to them doesn't mean it's healthy to have them in your life. Enjoy your day!
I contemplating writing a reply suggesting maybe a text or email instead, but I don't know enough about OP's situation so I don't think it's appropriate to give any advice that they didn't ask for.
Maybe there is a time for difficult outreach, but recommending someone to celebrate a person (and one of the most significant people in their life) whose primary emotion is disgust in response to unchosen personal attributes is remarkably insensitive. No need to salt those wounds.
Let's hope things get better for anyone in this circumstance, but IMO it is the parent's job to make an attempt.
--
Nobody wants to or tries to be this kind of person, so here is my shout out today to the moms who DID find a way to work through the challenge of accepting a child whose sexuality, spirituality, politics, etc. are different than they hoped for.
I don't mean to be a douche, but that's an exceedingly ignorant and short-sighted statement. A child doesn't owe their parents anything. If your parent is upset about something about you that you cannot change, then that parent can rightfully go fuck themselves.
Each person has their own situation so it isn't my place to give specific advice, but each and everyone should pause for a moment on this day, be thankful that they are alive, and consider to do the right thing that they wouldn't regret if they don't do it. Even if you wouldn't call your parents.
I think owing something should be contractual - they consent to owe something in a fair exchange.
A person does not consent to being born.
If someone treats you properly (raises you at least somewhat decently), you don't owe them anything, but you should feel an obligation to thank that person whether it's by saying thank you, or helping them later in their life when they need help.
I disagree a bit somehow with the statement as it's a bit too generic, in my perspective, I do owe my parents care when they get older (I don't care about laws, talking about morality), I wouldn't send them in a home waiting for them to die, they'll live with me and my wife until they die, I understand that many might disagree with this, and it's fair if you had shit parents, but if you had parents that genuinely cared and done everything for you, I believe you want to also be fair for the sacrifice they've done and take care of them when they are too old to take care of themselves (or if 1 of them die, luckily I have both of my parents still!).
Can you really consider yourself a good kid if you just let them die in a center? In my eyes, no.
You might feel an obligation, but you don't "owe" them anything.
It's pedantic but there's a subtle difference. Doing something for someone because you're grateful for them is fine. I like my parents, I might take care of them when they get older, but I'm doing that because I like them.
> Can you really consider yourself a good kid if you just let them die in a center? In my eyes, no.
Ironically, I think this is too generic. What if your parents were physically or sexually abusive? This isn't hypothetical, there are millions of children that live that reality. Are they "bad kids" because they don't want to help them when they're older?
Yeah I've put a specific "clause" for shitty parents, shitty parents deserve no support in the end (imo).
My main argument is really that in the West, we are going too far away from the grateful mentality and it's scary and even absurd to see the number of parents that die alone (I'm talking about good parents), I find it sad and immoral in many scenarios.
I use the word owe because it's a moral code thing, the same way as I owe my wife & children lifetime promises and support (but not obligated right?), it's not something really negotiable in my head and I don't really intend to change it.
I vow the same thing for my own children and I hope I'll do genuinely a good job, enough for them to feel that they owe me the support when I'm old. Think about the gift you do to a loving mother to let her die surrounded with her own kids, nothing is more important in life than this in the end, as you get older, no career or money matters, probably only family does (again, talking only about good parents, shitty ones aren't included in this kind of discussion)
I think it's certainly fine to be grateful for your parents if you like them. I had pretty ok parents so if they need help as they get older I'll probably help where I can.
I guess I just get a little annoyed that people act like you are supposed to. I didn't choose to be born, and as far as I am aware neither did the other eight billion on this planet. The parents were the ones who brought the kids into the world. The kids are their responsibility, not the other way around.
She can hate the things you do and still love who you are. Shining your light where it's cold and dark is the only way to make the darkness go away. Hope this helps
My mom is fine, but my grandmother has said exceedingly racist things to my wife and homophobic things to my sister. I haven't talked to her in years and I suspect I will not for the rest of her life.
People act like I am a douche for this, but at this point I really see three options here. A) I roll my eyes and let her spew her stupid racist bullshit and move on, B) I push back, start an argument, and really upset my mother (whom I do like), or C) drop contact with her. C seems like the least-bad option.
Kids owe their parents nothing. Not a single person on this planet asked to be born. If a parent (or grandparent) does something bad, the onus is not on the child to make things "right".
People act like you have to love your family no matter what, but I think that's pretty naive. If literally anyone I didn't share DNA with said something racist about my wife then no one would give me shit for not talking to them, but suddenly because I'm related to them I just have to let this bullshit slide? Fuck that bullshit.
This is the first year when I can’t do that.
Please go do it on my behalf, while it’s possible.
So, I have showdead on, and someone replied to me with a Reddit joke (that actually made me laugh). What really got me was the header for that:
“Hey Dad, why are you cackling?” “I‘ll… explain later.”Twenty nine long years for me. Mother's day is on a different date where I live, but every time it gets me. And on many of the days in-between too.
Take care everyone, and give your mother a hug if you can.
I lost mine 6 years ago. I regret not spending more time with her.
I wasted time on the computer instead to get "work" done.
Don't be like me.
Coming up on 3 years here. I felt this. Can also confirm this is based advice.
Same here. I’m sorry for your loss and may her memory be a blessing.
If you need someone to talk to I’m here.
it gets easier but not by much. I wouldn't have it any other way. Been 15 years and I don't want to ever forget. My Mom is showing your Mom around and they are trading stories of what brats we were :-)
My second. Most of the time it's fine, but... today it hit me. I don't have a mother anymore.
So, yeah. Call while you can.
Unless you're in the UK in which case it was the 15th March and you've already done it (or already missed it)
And if you’re French, don’t worry, you didn’t miss it.
It’s the 31st of May
Or you're in any timezone significantly ahead of the US (so like over 40% of the world's population). It's already 11.35pm here in India, and most moms (and reasonable adults) are already asleep. China/SE Asia/Jp etc are even further ahead.
Better luck next year... I guess?
Yeah I learned that today! I wonder what's the reason behind the difference.
In the UK (and a few other places) it’s “Mothering Sunday”, the day you honour the church where you were baptised, or your mother church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothering_Sunday
Well that just seems like a completely different thing that share a few letters
I'm in the UK and I've never heard of that definition of it (being to do with churches), maybe thats a very ancient definiton
Add a few more letters and you get my favorite day of the year
If you are Russian, then you celebrated this in November.
Fourth Sunday in Lent or something, very easy to forget it!
Yes, it pre-dates the gift card (and gift) industry. I seem to recall being told it was to allow servants to go home to see their mothers. See how vaguely I framed that.
If you’re American living in the UK you get double the number of weekends freaking out thinking you missed it. Those signs go up in February…
Before I got married and had kids I thought it was a dumb Hallmark holiday.
Now I think it's really significant and important to have an official day dedicated to recognize all the moms out there.
Happy mother's day to all the moms out there. And all the guys that made them moms :)
Each child is biologically required to have a mother. Fatherhood is a well-regarded theory, but motherhood is a fact.
P. J. O'Rourke
This is not true on just so many levels. Lots of people have mothers not worthy of the name. I don't know exactly what fatherhood being a theory and motherhood being a fact means but I struggle to find any that isn't offensive to fathers.
O'Rourke was a conservative satirist (back when that could even be a thing), was semi-famous for his long term appearances on NPR's Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, and was an advocate for gonzo journalism.
I take his quote to mean that motherhood is more difficult than fatherhood, especially back in the time he was active. The quote should, I feel, not be observed as a factual statement, but rather in the vein of his politically based humor. Largely, it was a simpler time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._O%27Rourke
You probably don't understand most clever jokes. O'Rourke's would clearly be lost on you.
I was a stay at home dad for a number of years and my observation is that kids never get over a bad relationship with their mother (also informed by knowing a number of adults with mothers that weren’t that good for them); any one can benefit from a good relationship with their father, but it’s a little more optional for the most kids. Ready to benefit from a supportive dad but ready to go it without that sort of helpfulness.
Why? What is special about being a mom? Are moms better than non moms? Lots of booze and a one night stand will create a mom, right? Not exactly a special feat
What's special - it's the person from whom most normal people have received the most love and care. It's the people who do the most work to keep humanity moving forward.
Are moms better than non moms - by and large yes.
I am sorry about what your life's story must have been like. Luckily I can't relate.
>It's the people who do the most work to keep humanity moving forward.
How do you define "moving forward"? Just having more people?
What a strange person you seem to be to think that moms are better than non moms simply because they are moms. You seem to have a child's view of the world
It's a day for mothers (which could be a step-parent, someone who adopted, neighbor, etc) - it's not Biological Incubator's Day.
That's not really true. One would like it to be, but it's not. We are taught to worship biological mothers in society so that people keep having kids and thus feeding the tax collector, military machine, cleaning toilets etc. Take veterans for example- we put them on a pedestal so that more kids sign up to feed the meat grinder in the hope of having a "veteran" car sticker one day.
I sincerely hope that you successfully navigate whatever it is that you are going through. This is not a sane or normal view of the world.
Some people just can't handle the truth
Even bad mothering takes a tremendous amount of work and selflessness. It is worth recognition prima facie.
When my mom remarried, her new husband started to manipulate her and isolate her from other relatives, trying to turn everyone against each other. The last time I met her, I was basically talking to two copies of him.
I've already dealt with the fact that I will not get my mom back.
Happy Mothers Day to all the moms on HN
And Latvia
I'll have a drink in her memory.
I'm sorry for your loss.
cheers mate
Sorry, but seeing your comment being called dead by HN was... amusing.
(I personally think it's okay to be amused, even if it's thanks to dead people. I don't think any mother would really mind too much.)
Writing here because your reply to me (“I choose this guy’s dead mom”) had me laughing out loud. Just saying, even though the comment got killed, it landed well.
Is it always May 10 in the countries where it's now? In Spain is the first Sunday of the month.
Second Sunday of May in the US
Why do they do this? Why not just have a fixed date for these things? Is it so people can use the weekend to celebrate?
If it was a fixed day it would end up being a week day a lot of the time.
Maybe that doesn’t matter, but it’s nice to have on a weekend.
Maybe I’m missing what you mean?
For Mother's Day, possibly, but it's not always the case. Thanksgiving is on the 4th Thursday of November.
Yes
In Poland it's on 26th of May.
Like in Portugal, I guess it is an Iberian thing.
(in the US)
And a bunch of other countries like Switzerland, Tanzania, Belgium, India, Greece, Hong Kong, etc. [0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_Day#Dates_around_th...
(and New Zealand)
(+ Germany and Mexico)
Which is what HN is bias towards clearly
(and Australia)
(and my Axe)
(And Venezuela)
(and Brazil)
(and India)
(And Canada)
(and The Netherlands)
(and South Africa)
(and Iceland)
(and Turkey)
And China, India, and many other large countries. Most of the world (by population) celebrates it today.
How is it mother day isn't that 8 march
March 8th is International Women's Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Women%27s_Day).
Mother’s Day is different from country to country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_Day)
Apparently, according to wikipedia, we have a "mother's day" in the first sunday in may. I've seen nothing in the news about it and wasn't aware of its existence.
8 March was an entirely different animal...
March 8 is international women’s day. The most ignored of all holidays by US culture. To an almost hilarious degree.
My partner frequently brags that she’s the only of her friends and coworkers, in 10+ years, who has ever gotten flowers for women’s day. Meanwhile even Uber drivers have wished her a happy women’s day in various heavy foreign accents.
I feel some editorializing going on.
Here[0] is a list of many holidays that are ignored more than international women’s day.
Happy International Day of Plant Health to you!
0: https://www.un.org/en/observances/list-days-weeks
international day of plant health is on may 12, not today!
November 19 is international men's day. How many times have you gotten flowers on that day? Or Uber drivers wishing you a happy men's day?
Fathers in the US can go out in public doing the absolute minimal amount of parenting work with a kid and bask in the warmth of approval from all observers.
The joke goes as following: Women are celebrated once a year... because men have the rest of the days.
lol. why arent we celebrated more
International men's day isn't a thing in the US either, so that's not surprising. Contrast to Mother's/Father's Day, which are.
// My partner frequently brags
March 8th is for the partners, mother's day is for the wives :)
Just kidding but couldn't resist.
Like May 1st which is snubbed in favor of (non-organized?) Labor Day, and, well, the metric system which has somehow still not been adopted in the US...
> Like May 1st which is snubbed in favor of (non-organized?) Labor Day
Oh don’t even get me started! Labor Day was specifically set for a different day than May 1st to discourage solidarity with international labor movements. Wouldn’t want people to feel a camaraderie with the communists and socialists abroad
Flowers for women's day is another ultimately weird tradition in many countries. Weird because the point of women's day is equality and not to be treated like our little special ladies. I always half jokingly said a more suitable gift would be a mini wrench or a screwdriver.
I wouldn’t say that. I don’t believe a men’s day even exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Men%27s_Day
Lost my mom 17 years ago. Don't be a chump; one day she won't be here and you will miss her in ways you never could have imagined.
I am happy for all those who celebrate.
Quick reminder that not all mothers are good people that we must keep in touch with. For people recovering from a rough childhood, here are a couple of resources that may be useful to you:
1. "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Gibson.
2. https://old.reddit.com/r/AdultChildren+CPTSD+raisedbynarciss...
<3 <3 <3
Traumatised children unite!
It is a little frustrating how those without this perspective react with shock when they discover that some of us have gone no contact with one of our parents. I was chatting to some muslim street preacher the other day and he told me that respect for your parents was a pillar of the faith, so that and my inability to grow a beard means I could never pick the Islam.
<3 <3 <3
Yep. My parents went to prison for child abuse.
Thank you for saying this. It needs saying as society finds it hard to acknowledge. My children are now no contact with their mother but it is painful.
I grew up in a toxic household (my mom cheated when I was two, my stepfather was very abusive towards my mom, and my mom was always condescending and materialistic and kept using me to get money from my birth father, my birth father has depression and I just never felt any love from him), and I now barely keep in touch with both my parents, the first one hit home.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of this. Mother's Day can be intensely painful for people who had or have abusive or neglectful mothers. I think this should be acknowledged before the blanket advice of "call your mom" is given.
Respect. It's a good day to remember the impact they had even if they are no longer around to pick up the phone. Btw calling her now.
Also, Mother's Day is May 9th next year. If you do want to mail a card next year, I recommend making a calendar entry now to remind you to buy (or make) a card and mail it so it arrives in time, or at least least make a calendar entry to call her on the day of.
And in case you are elsewhere... In Poland it's on the 26th, so hey buy some appropriate flowers or other gift while you have the time!
I lost my father last year because of complications from severe Alzheimer's. When I saw this, I thought my mother is still with us, and I need to be grateful for that. I love you mum!
This was submitted 2 hours after Mother's Day concluded in Australia.
Next year can you please post a day earlier?
˙pɹɐɔ ɐ lıɐɯ puɐ ʎnq oʇ ʇuɐʍ ʎǝɥʇ ɟı ʎlɹɐǝ os ɹo ʞǝǝʍ ɐ sdɐɥɹǝd - ɹɐǝʎ ʇxǝu ɹoɟ sɹɐpuǝlɐɔ ɹıǝɥʇ uı ʇı ʇnd ǝldoǝd ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıʇsǝƃƃns ʇuǝɯɯoɔ ɹǝɥʇouɐ ǝpɐɯ ı ˙ǝɯıʇ ǝɥʇ ʇɐ dǝǝlsɐ sɐʍ ı 'ʎɹɹos
:-)
Not everywhere, in Portugal it is the first May's Sunday.
Happy mother's day to any mothers here!
I've created two mother's. The firstborn is privileged.
"I don't have mother" That's why I came to hear
I was waiting for: what shall I call her?
This seems more appropriate for reddit or LinkedIn. You really that desperate for points?
I have just come to HN from I was actually helping my mother in pressing legs as her legs sometimes hurt from pain :-(
Gonna go help my mom again in massaging her legs, Okay shes asking me to help now, bye!
Appreciate the reminder,small post,big impact.Happy Mother's day to all moms here.
She despises me for being gay. Not a chance I'm calling her.
Not all moms are good people. People with good moms often have trouble understanding or respecting that.
Every parent in Asia would despise their son if they were gay. That does not make them bad parents.
Literally it does, "culture" is an excuse to hide some shitty behavior sometimes, many aspects of many culture are pure trash and must change. (I live in Asia).
Child marriage is an example, very few will argue that it doesn't make them bad parents for selling their children, but it's completely alright in many cultures, nope, garbage culture.
And what you say about every parents in Asia is utter-nonsense btw and it's not the reality, you clearly don't understand a word of what you are writing.
Those are your morals though. There’s no reason other groups of people have to abide by it. You can force it militarily if you want, but that’s about it. Other groups think divorce is one of the biggest sins, but you continue to do it. Other people think dedicating your life to consumerism is the biggest evil. Why is child marriage and opposition to non biological sexual relations that different (for what it’s worth I’m totally against child marriage and completely for people to sleep with whoever they want to). It’s all relative. You’re trapped in your headspace, listen to me closely IT’S ALL RELATIVE.
Just say that’s the way you want the world to be, not some unassailable universal truth.
Are you really trying to argue that pedophilia is morally ambiguous?
Obviously it is. Millions of years of human society thought marriage/sex with 13 year olds was fine until suddenly a couple hundred years ago. Yes I know that's not true pedophilia, but real child marriage was also quite common and considered normal and not immoral.
Fwiw I am not a moral subjectivist, but this is HN; if we're pretending cultures are relatively equal in value and empiricism is the expected outlook, then we need to acknowledge pedophilia is not historically reviled.
Wow. That's, um, quite a statement you made there. Adults having sex with 13 year olds is a morally ambiguous situation to you.
Yes, thank you for restating part of my comment. If you'd care to engage with the substance of the rest of the point please feel free at any time. This isn't Reddit where you get to just write an istophobe aspersion and collect the upvotes.
Sorry, I don't think there is value in debating the morality of an unambiguously immoral action. There's no value to give it weight, the whole premise is flawed.
Well I'm glad you/we are more enlightened than the hundred billion previous humans who all had complex moral reasoning facilities but failed spectacularly to use them. I guess Aristotle and Plato and Aquinas were just idiots who couldn't see the unambiguous, objectively correct moral standards that you know of intrinsically.
Edit: serves me right for phone posting; I have you muted on the desktop with an extension, seemingly for good reason
Yes it does.
Hating your child for the genes you gave them absolutely makes you a bad parent.
This is patently and absurdly false.
I don't know you, but I'm happy that you get to be you. If you wouldn't be friends with your family members, then why would you spend time with them? As far as parents go, they chose to have me, I didn't choose them. Not all people are good, and just because you are related to them doesn't mean it's healthy to have them in your life. Enjoy your day!
Thank you, for your empathy, it is always appreciated.
Give her a call regardless. Perhaps that's the first step to letting it sink in for her that you actually care about her.
My mother has said she would prefer I die by suicide than continue living in sin. I am deeply shameful to her.
I will not call her. It benefits neither of us.
Bad advice when you don't know the situation. It's never a child's job to fix an abusive parent.
> the first step to letting it sink in for her that you actually care about her.
You clearly didn't read properly. It's the mom the one who doesn't care about her child. Calling her isn't going to change anything.
Despising someone for something doesn't automatically mean that person doesn't care about someone.
Calling might not change anything, but that doesn't mean that change couldn't happen another way.
I'm sorry :-(
You should call her
I contemplating writing a reply suggesting maybe a text or email instead, but I don't know enough about OP's situation so I don't think it's appropriate to give any advice that they didn't ask for.
Hard disagree.
Maybe there is a time for difficult outreach, but recommending someone to celebrate a person (and one of the most significant people in their life) whose primary emotion is disgust in response to unchosen personal attributes is remarkably insensitive. No need to salt those wounds.
Let's hope things get better for anyone in this circumstance, but IMO it is the parent's job to make an attempt.
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Nobody wants to or tries to be this kind of person, so here is my shout out today to the moms who DID find a way to work through the challenge of accepting a child whose sexuality, spirituality, politics, etc. are different than they hoped for.
I don't mean to be a douche, but that's an exceedingly ignorant and short-sighted statement. A child doesn't owe their parents anything. If your parent is upset about something about you that you cannot change, then that parent can rightfully go fuck themselves.
Kids don't owe their parents anything.
Kids own their parents their very presence.
Each person has their own situation so it isn't my place to give specific advice, but each and everyone should pause for a moment on this day, be thankful that they are alive, and consider to do the right thing that they wouldn't regret if they don't do it. Even if you wouldn't call your parents.
Do they really owe that?
I think owing something should be contractual - they consent to owe something in a fair exchange.
A person does not consent to being born.
If someone treats you properly (raises you at least somewhat decently), you don't owe them anything, but you should feel an obligation to thank that person whether it's by saying thank you, or helping them later in their life when they need help.
No one asked to be born. People are only born because their parents brought them into existence.
I disagree a bit somehow with the statement as it's a bit too generic, in my perspective, I do owe my parents care when they get older (I don't care about laws, talking about morality), I wouldn't send them in a home waiting for them to die, they'll live with me and my wife until they die, I understand that many might disagree with this, and it's fair if you had shit parents, but if you had parents that genuinely cared and done everything for you, I believe you want to also be fair for the sacrifice they've done and take care of them when they are too old to take care of themselves (or if 1 of them die, luckily I have both of my parents still!).
Can you really consider yourself a good kid if you just let them die in a center? In my eyes, no.
You might feel an obligation, but you don't "owe" them anything.
It's pedantic but there's a subtle difference. Doing something for someone because you're grateful for them is fine. I like my parents, I might take care of them when they get older, but I'm doing that because I like them.
> Can you really consider yourself a good kid if you just let them die in a center? In my eyes, no.
Ironically, I think this is too generic. What if your parents were physically or sexually abusive? This isn't hypothetical, there are millions of children that live that reality. Are they "bad kids" because they don't want to help them when they're older?
Yeah I've put a specific "clause" for shitty parents, shitty parents deserve no support in the end (imo).
My main argument is really that in the West, we are going too far away from the grateful mentality and it's scary and even absurd to see the number of parents that die alone (I'm talking about good parents), I find it sad and immoral in many scenarios.
I use the word owe because it's a moral code thing, the same way as I owe my wife & children lifetime promises and support (but not obligated right?), it's not something really negotiable in my head and I don't really intend to change it.
I vow the same thing for my own children and I hope I'll do genuinely a good job, enough for them to feel that they owe me the support when I'm old. Think about the gift you do to a loving mother to let her die surrounded with her own kids, nothing is more important in life than this in the end, as you get older, no career or money matters, probably only family does (again, talking only about good parents, shitty ones aren't included in this kind of discussion)
I think it's certainly fine to be grateful for your parents if you like them. I had pretty ok parents so if they need help as they get older I'll probably help where I can.
I guess I just get a little annoyed that people act like you are supposed to. I didn't choose to be born, and as far as I am aware neither did the other eight billion on this planet. The parents were the ones who brought the kids into the world. The kids are their responsibility, not the other way around.
... why?
Lol. Call her and put on a heavy lisp
She can hate the things you do and still love who you are. Shining your light where it's cold and dark is the only way to make the darkness go away. Hope this helps
My mom is fine, but my grandmother has said exceedingly racist things to my wife and homophobic things to my sister. I haven't talked to her in years and I suspect I will not for the rest of her life.
People act like I am a douche for this, but at this point I really see three options here. A) I roll my eyes and let her spew her stupid racist bullshit and move on, B) I push back, start an argument, and really upset my mother (whom I do like), or C) drop contact with her. C seems like the least-bad option.
Kids owe their parents nothing. Not a single person on this planet asked to be born. If a parent (or grandparent) does something bad, the onus is not on the child to make things "right".
People act like you have to love your family no matter what, but I think that's pretty naive. If literally anyone I didn't share DNA with said something racist about my wife then no one would give me shit for not talking to them, but suddenly because I'm related to them I just have to let this bullshit slide? Fuck that bullshit.
I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Being gay isn't "something I do" it's "something I am"
thx, I almost missed it
HN’s demo is quite old. It’s likely most here are married with kids or have a dead mother.
The days of a young Silicon Valley are long gone.
This is good reminder but I do regular calls to her even today also
Call your Mom every day, even for a minute