I wish the author had toned down the chatgpt style of the writing. e.g. headers that say "What You’re Getting for $599". Another example: "Read those numbers again. The same chip that posts 3,569 single-core when cold delivers 476 after five minutes of sustained load. That is an 87% reduction in single-core performance on the same hardware, running the same benchmark, separated by nothing but heat."
I bought an 8gb M1 Air in 2020 (for what now feels like an absurdly small sum of money) as an experiment in how-cheap-is-too-cheap / chuckable travel laptop. I ended up using it as my main laptop for 2 years without regret, then handed it to my son for school.
It remains in perfect condition and as delightful to use as the day I bought it (Apple software snafus notwithstanding). I fully expect to get at least 10 years use out of it. Honestly, I feel like it could probably carry him all the way through school - but I’d be embarrassed to say that out loud since that’s another 9 years.
I've been on my M1 Air, 16GB, since a few weeks after launch, more than six years now. I still use it daily with lots of Docker containers, VS Code, tons of Electron apps, a small macOS arm VM, and lots of browser tabs simultaneously. Recently, Claude's VM environment is getting exercised simultaneously. Usually the memory pressure is into yellow, but responsiveness is still far higher than any Mac from the Intel days, and far more usable than any Windows laptop that I have the misfortune to experience when borrowing somebody else's computer. And despite all that memory pressure, my SSD isn't getting worn out by swapping, I'm at only "3%" of SSD wear, if those stats on the CLI are to be trusted.
I'm not sure I'll need another computer anytime soon. Even though the kids jumped on it once when I left it on the couch for a few minutes, bending the case on one side of the keyboard. It bent back mostly flat. Gives it a bit of personality.
Never before has $1099 (or whatever) of hardware gone so far for me.
I had a ton of issues with my Macbook pro M1 16GB, memory pressure would be in the yellow always and into red frequently which caused sound stutter and all sorts of issues.
My M1 air (I think 8GB?) had similar issues
My M2 24gb was amazing - especially since it allowed dual monitors.
I recently upgraded to the M4 32GB and it is my "do everything" computer and is absolutely awesome.
My personal experience with the m-series is that get as memory as possible. I do feel the M1 had issues based on the couple I owned.
EDIT: Even on 32GB my memory pressure is constantly in the yellow, but have not seen it go to red
Memory pressure sort-of means something sort-of doesn't. It's certainly possible that critical pressure could cause audio issues, but it could also be impossible to ever notice.
More importantly you shouldn't be experiencing audio stalls, so complain in the feedback app if you do.
I did forget, because a silent laptop is now table stakes for me. I can't imagine buying anything with an audible fan again. I'd rather stay on the hardware I have.
a bit of an aside but what's amazing is that Docker's recent beta VM for Mac (I think released a couple of months ago now) has dramatically improved the performance you get out of your CPU.
Using a macbook air, even a recent one, before this Docker was definitely usable but noticably slower. Probably still worth it but a noticable tradeoff using it as a dev machine Vs a pro. Now that tradeoff has basically gone away.
I can't stand Apple, but it's the truth. I used one sporadically to build my stuff for Mac. Going back to my Windows workstation after that always felt like travelling 15 years back in time. I recommended M1 Air to everyone whose workflow was compatible with a Mac. Most of the people who acted on that recommendation still use it and don't really think about upgrading.
I wouldn't be embarrassed, Apple computers hold their value and performance for a remarkable amount of time, and that was even before Apple Silicon, which, as I'm still running an M1 Pro machine, will last quite a while, another several years yet.
Same. Recently bought myself a M2 Air as a birthday gift for myself. 8GB, chucked OpenBSD on it and couldn't be happier. It does what I need, battery lasts long and easy to chuck around.
I bumped up to 16gb ram and more storage... it's still running great for when I use it, which is not much tbf... I mostly use my desktop because my vision has gotten exceedingly bad the past few years and my 45" desktop displays are significantly easier for me to read and use... I can kind of manage with the M1 display set to max size/scale... but many apps and sites are problematic.
I had an M1 pro with the touchbar thing that I bought used for <$1000 after I had to give my work one back when I changed jobs. It was the best upgrade I ever made. I cracked the screen and bought a M4 air on black friday for $750 or something which I'm using now.
I have a 2017 MacBook Air that's still going strong and will certainly hit 10 years. It definitely won't hit another 9 years after that, though... The keyboard doesn't have that much life left in it, and I won't be repairing it.
> The I/O is also a genuine limitation: one USB 2.0 port is functionally useless for data transfer, no Thunderbolt means no fast external storage, and charging occupies your only USB 3 port.
You're supposed to use the USB-2 port for charging and save the USB-3 port for external accessories, not the other way around
It only supports 10Gb/s compared to 40 that USB-4 is theoretically capable of, but that's more than enough for anyone in the $600 laptop market.
It’s not functionally useless, it supports a mouse, keyboard, printer or even an iPhone (non pro) perfectly fine at full speed. It also probably has enough speed for the average cheap terrible quality USB drive that the buyer of a $600 PC might have.
This is a Silicon Valley tech geek take not a real world one.
I’m waiting for the first A chip designed after the Neo decision - it’ll be interesting to see what they do knowing it’ll end up in a laptop. The obvious thing is “fixing” the USB problem.
Yeah, but that USB 3 port has to do a lot of heavy lifting. It 's also the only video out port making decent dongles a necessity. On a $600 PC it's not uncommon to have USB A (at 3.0 speeds), HDMI in addition to USB C and maybe even Ethernet.
Yes, but it is uncommon for a $600 PC to have a beautiful screen, great trackpad, metal case, and top notch build quality. Also, the neo performs really really well.
Apple should appoint you as PR chief so you can explain to users that the two visually identical and unlabeled ports next to each other are different, because labeling is ugly and only for PCs, and they're stupid for not realizing it.
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
The computer pops up a warning if you plug a fast device into the slow port, which is a lot more informative for the average user than a tiny label that most users wouldn’t even read.
Labels would be nice, I guess, but their absence is hardly a dealbreaker.
Windows has been showing popup USB speed warnings since at least Windows XP.... so 25 years?
Let's not use this cope to mislead anyone into thinking this is a unique Mac innovation (it isn't) that trumps this abomination of human factors (it doesn't).
I have never ever seen Windows provide this warning even once just because there is a faster port on the machine and the user plugged the device into the wrong one. Please provide a source for this claim that you are making. Citation absolutely needed.
In the unlikely case that this feature exists thanks to Microsoft, I would like to say that is great, because it is much more user friendly than only having tiny labels. But since I’ve never seen this feature work before, it seems to me that it must be broken, if it exists at all.
These warning messages do exist, at least for if your computer supports USB4 but not on that port, or thunderbolt / DP alternate mode but not on that port
You get a message on screen that you should be using the other port.
But yes, labeling should have been better. One of the USPs of MacBooks is that all USB ports are the same. Unlike other computers where you have to look where you are plugging it in. The Neo breaks that tradition.
Do you think those same users know the difference between usb3, usb4, and thunderbolt (or even that all three exist)? More over, do you think they know how to tell cables apart for the three?
I legitimately have no idea what "SS" means next to a port, and I've seen it plenty of times. Labeling doesn't solve everything. The message on screen that you get when you plug something into the wrong port on the Neo is, obviously, much better because it assumes nothing about the user's knowledge except for the ability to read.
SuperSpeed, but you’re not supposed to use that as a consumer facing label anymore
> NOTE: USB4® Version 2.0, USB4® Version 1.0, USB 3.2, SuperSpeed Plus, Enhanced SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+ are defined in the USB specifications however these terms are not intended to be used in product names, messaging, packaging or any other consumer-facing content.
USB-IF’s recommended name for this port is now just “USB 10Gbps”
Not that I would expect an average consumer to understand that as a label, but at least it takes up less space and allows relative comparisons better than USB 3.0 SuperSpeed+ or whatever the old equivalent was.
I feel confident in saying that I am better at computers than 99.99% of the general population and I have no clue what “SS” or blue USB ports are supposed to indicate.
I don't know the details of Apple's silicon designs, but I assume the USB port bandwidth is because this is using the chip from iPhone 16 Pro, a phone which of course had a single USB-3 port. They've done what they can with it to hit the price point.
The alternative was to not include a second USB port for charging, in which case people would be bitching about it not being able to use peripherals while charging like the last time they made a single port laptop.
Sometimes on HN while this is technically correct I wonder if Mac users will truly notice. This is probably a limitation of the A19 chip. Many people just see the price tag and buy.
I bought a Neo as an out of the house computer and it really is a triumph. If the Air is good enough for 99% of the population, the Neo as is approaches good enough for 90% of the population at half the cost.
My wife bought a Neo and has been very happy with it. I was wary of the 8gb memory limit but she is running claude code doing web development with a reasonable number of tabs open and no noticeable lag, so I'd say its definitely getting a lot of mileage out of it.
It honestly seems good enough that it might cannibalize Macbook Air sales.
After years of incremental upgrades to the Airs, a new entry level M5 Air gives you double the RAM, double the storage, and double the CPU and GPU performance of an M1 Air.
Hopefully used Airs will come up for sale more frequently, as they remain a step up from the Neo.
I am running Claude Code, Claude Desktop, Codex and Docker Desktop on a last generation Intel Air, that admittedly has 12 GB RAM. One has to be a bit careful with more apps. But I look forward to an upgrade. Maybe a Neo, but more likely a second hand M.
I can top that (he said bitterly). My wife is still gorgeous after 30+ years of marriage and is a 10x programmer. But she was happy when given the choice not to work when we married, and hasn’t touched a compiler in decades.
I did well in business, but the family joke is that I’d be a billionaire if I could have monetized her.
Macbook Neo is amazing, so impressed what Apple can deliver for so little.
That said, my sister this morning asked if she should buy a Macbook Neo. I pointed her to a refurb M2 Macbook Air with 16GB of RAM for the same price. I feel like that's the right call? Slower single-core performance but better multi-core and I think for 90% of normal people use cases the RAM is the limit before the CPU.
I think I would cut the line at M3 or above. I think M2 uses an older architecture and it doesn't have WiFi 6E in it, and of course single core is a bit lower. Also M2 batteries are about maybe halfway done already unless the refurb replaced the battery.
The Neo is pretty great, and the compromises are totally reasonable at the price point. But if they do a second generation with A19 Pro (and thus 12GB RAM) and a slightly better cooling system then it would really be fantastic.
I do this with my old 2017 MacBook Air and while the case gets pretty hot, it reduces throttling on the old Intel processor a lot. It felt like a new computer after replacing the thermal paste and adding that pad.
Maybe some... but they're likely picking up a lot of people that would have gone with a $500-700 windows laptop instead.. and the margins are similar, so they're probably well ahead.
intentionally cannibalizing their own sales is iirc the official apple policy: iphone destroyed ipod and was one of the best business mives of all time
If they can use this product to lock more people into their ecosystem it'll work. As a lifelong windows/android user, I've been eyeing up the neo.
Also, the Neo is just cheap enough that it's a product I'd consider buying that I don't need. I'm not in the market for a new laptop and certainly not an Air. So I'm a demographic considering this product that is not going to cannibalize their existing sales. There's gotta be at least a dozen people like me!
We just bought the Neo for our daughter to use at school. My biggest concern was the trackpad. This is the first MacBook to not use a force touch trackpad since they were introduced. I must say that the new trackpad is really good. It's not quite as good as the force touch one in my MacBook Pro, but it's close. We will see how well the Neo holds up over time, but it's off to a good start.
I never use the physical touch on the MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. It’s one of the first things I configure so that a light tap is a click. It somehow feels “faster” to me.
I still have AnandTech in a prime spot on my bookmarks toolbar. I miss the site so much and welcome any reviews like this that attempt to capture their level of detail when reviewing a product.
it also looks really nice. at the Apple Store, the chassis seems well machined. the "cheaper" apple logo insert also clearly also incurred some expense as it fit into the lid perfectly. Hinge, keyboard and trackpad felt good. Design team clearly took time to telegraph craft and quality in their product.
> Apple has to keep macOS running well within 8GB, which is actually a nice forcing function against bloat and inefficiency. We could all use a little more of that.
Hmm, I have a very different understanding of how Apple uses forcing functions. Prematurely slowing iPhones with older batteries regardless of charge level as a forcing function to upgrade is what I take away. When the 12GB Neo's are out, I expect another bit of bloat in Liquid Glass or other to motivate the upgrade.
Apple's throttling was an undisclosed optimization that was controversial because it was not disclosed. The optimization itself was not controversial. It was not premature either. If the battery's measurable levels (impedance, current, voltage, etc.) fell out of nominal range, then throttling occurred. FWIW I somewhat resent having to 'defend' Apple here, but your narrative frame here has too much speculation for a situation finalized in fact in 2017, almost 10 years ago.
Recently dived into mac world (air) too after decades of win/linux.
Pleasant experience and very impressed by hardware and polish except wow the keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed.
Who decided that sometimes its cmd+Q to close a window while other times its cmd+W and some apps support both but with different behaviours and knowing which of the three it is depends on knowing what's an OS window (but not all OS windows)? Or why is taking a screenshot of an area to clip it a FOUR key combo with one of them being a random number (the key 4). I can definitely memorize it and get used to it, but were the designers high as a kite when it was shortcut design day?
The cmd+q is the "quit" command. And the convention in single-window apps (or ones that have a single unambiguous main window) is that the window only closes when the app is quit. So this is command you have to give.
For "document-based" apps (think almost anything where you open multiple files), the application can stay running even if there are no open windows. So you have both cmd+q and cmd+w available to you.
You can probably come up with some apps that don't cleanly fit these two, but that is what Apple has.
As to screen shot commands, it is a three-key chord because it is system-wide, and they did not want to step on any toes that the apps might have. And there are a few versions:
shift-command-3 takes the entire screen
shift-command-4 takes either a window or a section (press space bar to switch between them)
shift-command-5 opens a more menu-based system that includes a timer
Why 3, 4, and 5 (and not 1 or 2)... I don't know. Maybe there was something in those spots at some point.
Command - Shift - 1 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 1" and Command - Shift - 2 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 2". I kid you not, that's how old these keyboard shortcuts are, they date back to the 80's.
> keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed
You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app). You don't even need to memorize them.
When I first switched to Mac after using Ubuntu for 4 years before that, I didn't expect this level of customization. It's misunderstood because Apple doesn't advertise this.
>You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app)
That's actually my other complaint. "Fixing" problems with the OS with mystery apps.
Connected an external mouse. Mouse wheel is inverted...weird? Google it. Yeah you can toggle it. Thank goodness. Apple knew people use mice. Oh but that inverts the trackpad too. WHAT? You're joking. I need to pick between a sane trackpad and sane mouse? I own both and need both to work to work in a not upside down manner.
Climb onto an AI and ask it what to do because this is insanity like surely not this can't be how it is. LLM goes yeah no that's just macos you need to install a mystery app to unfuck it.
Don't get me wrong my overall experience is positive and there has been the expected learning curve which is fine ofc, but also a fair bit of "what the actual F how are people OK with this".
cmd-W closes windows and cmd-Q quits the App. That Apps can stay open without having a Window is actually useful (at least it makes sense to me).
@screenshot
Mac has always been kind of amazing for the granular options you get to take screenshots out of the box.
• Command - Shift - 3 | Takes a fullscreen pic of the entire display. Loads a preview in the bottom right corner. Click to expand, and from there edit, share, save, delete, etc.
• Command - Shift - 4 | Turns your mouse cursor into a crosshair. Drag to create a rectangular window. Takes a capture of the contents when done. Escape or right-click to cancel. Preview loads the same as above.
• Command - Shift - 5 | Brings up a rectangular section that can be moved around and resized.
But any shortcut can be remapped:
Go to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Screenshots
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
>Command Q quits the currently active application.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
>Command W closes the current window
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
>standard behavior
It isn't and its a tribute to human adaptability to chaos that mac crowd thinks this is standardization
> Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
> Safari
Multiple tabs in a window are intended to be treated the same as multiple windows. This has been the case since macOS made tabbed interface components a standard part of the OS.
>You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
That's what google told me after I set out to discover what rules are behind the inconsistency. The solution to inconsistent shortcuts is apparently memorizing which parts of the software that is PREINSTALLED is considered part of the OS and which parts are not.
>Which apps?
Not apps small a...Apps big A...the thing apple macs ship with on the dock and literally entitled "Apps". That baked into the default install window just behaves differently from both finder style built in OS things and Safari also built in but different built in not part of OS. Why? I don't fuckin know. Neither Q nor W make it go away. OK so hit esc. Does that make the window go away? It turns it into a smaller window that now performs a different function?!?!? Spotlight. OK so now i need to memorize what is an preinstalled OS window, preinstalled not os window, preinstalled not os window not app window but some sort of launcher I guess?
So a new user is basically guessing which of THREE keys combos may or may not make the window go away or possible do nothing or do something else entirely (close tab).
I feel like I'm being gaslight by all the hn users telling me yeah that makes sense
I'm so used to macos now that I don't even realize that this is confusing. What OS did you use before, windows? is there no distinction between quiting an app and closing a window on windows?
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
As an outsider it boggles my mind that apple crowd doesn't notice how all over the place macos shortcuts are.
for vibe coding stuff, especially when you're outside touching grass, I believe MacBook Neo is perfect. it fills the gap between the phone remote control (which is too painful for chatting with ai cli) and, well, not having any dev device.
It's one of the nicest things to do if you love computers, and great for your health compared with staying indoors.
> Could one actually work like this, typing and everything? After my “heart-rate discovery” I decided I had to try it. I thought I’d have to build something myself, but actually one can just buy “walking desks”, and so I did. And after minor modifications, I discovered that I could walk and type perfectly well with it, even for a couple of hours. I was embarrassed I hadn’t figured out such a simple solution 20 years ago. But starting last fall—whenever the weather’s been good—I’ve tried to spend a couple of hours of each day walking outside like this
I'm not OP but I work outside and use light mode. Macs are generally fairly bright as long as you aren't in direct sunlight. Solarized light mode for the win though.
Back when I did much work outside, I used a laptop that had accidental transflective characteristics. In bright sunlight, the LCD actually become quite clear monochrome, with some pixels acting as mirrors and others not, but I don't think they designed the LCD to do that.
You get an Apple product. At least, for me it was that simple. The ThinkPad I had was pretty high end, and I was using polarized glasses and even a sun shade to work at the park while the girls played. Bought a MacBook and the screen seems to crisply outshine even the sunniest days -- I haven't had to worry about outdoor use since, to my recollection.
How fast can it recharge is probably the main limiting factor. I’m used to finding power wherever I can from the bad old days, but the M1 laptops have spoiled me.
I think the only gap I’ve come across is that trying to drive two monitors through a display link dock it doesn’t really have the GPU to not have that be laggy.
and this is my developer. She consumes one hundred fifty gigabytes and runs two hundred thousand dollar, custom-tooled GPUs at ten thousand tokens per minute. It costs four hundred thousand dollars to develop…for twelve seconds.”
[Laughs]
“Oh my Claude, who touched settings.json? Alright…Who touched my LLM!?”
IDE written in Java indexing 10K files, compiling + running spring boot apps that take 30 seconds to start on the M4, or C++ compilation, or rust compilation.. Or maybe you were sarcastic?
I wish the author had toned down the chatgpt style of the writing. e.g. headers that say "What You’re Getting for $599". Another example: "Read those numbers again. The same chip that posts 3,569 single-core when cold delivers 476 after five minutes of sustained load. That is an 87% reduction in single-core performance on the same hardware, running the same benchmark, separated by nothing but heat."
I bought an 8gb M1 Air in 2020 (for what now feels like an absurdly small sum of money) as an experiment in how-cheap-is-too-cheap / chuckable travel laptop. I ended up using it as my main laptop for 2 years without regret, then handed it to my son for school.
It remains in perfect condition and as delightful to use as the day I bought it (Apple software snafus notwithstanding). I fully expect to get at least 10 years use out of it. Honestly, I feel like it could probably carry him all the way through school - but I’d be embarrassed to say that out loud since that’s another 9 years.
I've been on my M1 Air, 16GB, since a few weeks after launch, more than six years now. I still use it daily with lots of Docker containers, VS Code, tons of Electron apps, a small macOS arm VM, and lots of browser tabs simultaneously. Recently, Claude's VM environment is getting exercised simultaneously. Usually the memory pressure is into yellow, but responsiveness is still far higher than any Mac from the Intel days, and far more usable than any Windows laptop that I have the misfortune to experience when borrowing somebody else's computer. And despite all that memory pressure, my SSD isn't getting worn out by swapping, I'm at only "3%" of SSD wear, if those stats on the CLI are to be trusted.
I'm not sure I'll need another computer anytime soon. Even though the kids jumped on it once when I left it on the couch for a few minutes, bending the case on one side of the keyboard. It bent back mostly flat. Gives it a bit of personality.
Never before has $1099 (or whatever) of hardware gone so far for me.
I had a ton of issues with my Macbook pro M1 16GB, memory pressure would be in the yellow always and into red frequently which caused sound stutter and all sorts of issues.
My M1 air (I think 8GB?) had similar issues My M2 24gb was amazing - especially since it allowed dual monitors. I recently upgraded to the M4 32GB and it is my "do everything" computer and is absolutely awesome.
My personal experience with the m-series is that get as memory as possible. I do feel the M1 had issues based on the couple I owned.
EDIT: Even on 32GB my memory pressure is constantly in the yellow, but have not seen it go to red
Memory pressure sort-of means something sort-of doesn't. It's certainly possible that critical pressure could cause audio issues, but it could also be impossible to ever notice.
More importantly you shouldn't be experiencing audio stalls, so complain in the feedback app if you do.
And you forgot the best part: it is completely silent.
I did forget, because a silent laptop is now table stakes for me. I can't imagine buying anything with an audible fan again. I'd rather stay on the hardware I have.
I appreciate a light whoosh from a laptop.
a bit of an aside but what's amazing is that Docker's recent beta VM for Mac (I think released a couple of months ago now) has dramatically improved the performance you get out of your CPU.
Using a macbook air, even a recent one, before this Docker was definitely usable but noticably slower. Probably still worth it but a noticable tradeoff using it as a dev machine Vs a pro. Now that tradeoff has basically gone away.
Entry-spec M1 Air is the best computer ever made.
I can't stand Apple, but it's the truth. I used one sporadically to build my stuff for Mac. Going back to my Windows workstation after that always felt like travelling 15 years back in time. I recommended M1 Air to everyone whose workflow was compatible with a Mac. Most of the people who acted on that recommendation still use it and don't really think about upgrading.
I wouldn't be embarrassed, Apple computers hold their value and performance for a remarkable amount of time, and that was even before Apple Silicon, which, as I'm still running an M1 Pro machine, will last quite a while, another several years yet.
Same. Recently bought myself a M2 Air as a birthday gift for myself. 8GB, chucked OpenBSD on it and couldn't be happier. It does what I need, battery lasts long and easy to chuck around.
TIL you can run OpenBSD on apple silicon. With how much effort has gone into Asahi Linux, I'm surprised.
It has no graphics acceleration, right? Doesn’t windowing feel sluggish?
I bumped up to 16gb ram and more storage... it's still running great for when I use it, which is not much tbf... I mostly use my desktop because my vision has gotten exceedingly bad the past few years and my 45" desktop displays are significantly easier for me to read and use... I can kind of manage with the M1 display set to max size/scale... but many apps and sites are problematic.
I had an M1 pro with the touchbar thing that I bought used for <$1000 after I had to give my work one back when I changed jobs. It was the best upgrade I ever made. I cracked the screen and bought a M4 air on black friday for $750 or something which I'm using now.
I have a 2017 MacBook Air that's still going strong and will certainly hit 10 years. It definitely won't hit another 9 years after that, though... The keyboard doesn't have that much life left in it, and I won't be repairing it.
> The I/O is also a genuine limitation: one USB 2.0 port is functionally useless for data transfer, no Thunderbolt means no fast external storage, and charging occupies your only USB 3 port.
You're supposed to use the USB-2 port for charging and save the USB-3 port for external accessories, not the other way around
It only supports 10Gb/s compared to 40 that USB-4 is theoretically capable of, but that's more than enough for anyone in the $600 laptop market.
It’s a bizarre take.
It’s not functionally useless, it supports a mouse, keyboard, printer or even an iPhone (non pro) perfectly fine at full speed. It also probably has enough speed for the average cheap terrible quality USB drive that the buyer of a $600 PC might have.
This is a Silicon Valley tech geek take not a real world one.
The assortment of cheap USB sticks I have do not surpass 400mbit/sec. Not even the ones labeled USB3.0 or High Speed.
Both 10Gb/s and 8GB RAM limit come from iPhone 16 Pro chip limitations used in Neo. Next year's should have 12GB of RAM.
If they can maintain the same price tag for A19 based Macbook Neo with 12GB of RAM, I genuinely do not know how other companies can compete.
I’m waiting for the first A chip designed after the Neo decision - it’ll be interesting to see what they do knowing it’ll end up in a laptop. The obvious thing is “fixing” the USB problem.
Yeah, but that USB 3 port has to do a lot of heavy lifting. It 's also the only video out port making decent dongles a necessity. On a $600 PC it's not uncommon to have USB A (at 3.0 speeds), HDMI in addition to USB C and maybe even Ethernet.
> On a $600 PC
Yes, but it is uncommon for a $600 PC to have a beautiful screen, great trackpad, metal case, and top notch build quality. Also, the neo performs really really well.
Apple should appoint you as PR chief so you can explain to users that the two visually identical and unlabeled ports next to each other are different, because labeling is ugly and only for PCs, and they're stupid for not realizing it.
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
The computer pops up a warning if you plug a fast device into the slow port, which is a lot more informative for the average user than a tiny label that most users wouldn’t even read.
Labels would be nice, I guess, but their absence is hardly a dealbreaker.
Windows has been showing popup USB speed warnings since at least Windows XP.... so 25 years?
Let's not use this cope to mislead anyone into thinking this is a unique Mac innovation (it isn't) that trumps this abomination of human factors (it doesn't).
I have never ever seen Windows provide this warning even once just because there is a faster port on the machine and the user plugged the device into the wrong one. Please provide a source for this claim that you are making. Citation absolutely needed.
In the unlikely case that this feature exists thanks to Microsoft, I would like to say that is great, because it is much more user friendly than only having tiny labels. But since I’ve never seen this feature work before, it seems to me that it must be broken, if it exists at all.
These warning messages do exist, at least for if your computer supports USB4 but not on that port, or thunderbolt / DP alternate mode but not on that port
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/u...
The OP might be remembering this (link) style of message from the Windows XP days. I don't think I've seen it for windows 7/10/11, sadly.
It will warn you if you're charging over the slower to charge port, though.
https://superuser.com/questions/1022542/windows-10-display-a...
You get a message on screen that you should be using the other port.
But yes, labeling should have been better. One of the USPs of MacBooks is that all USB ports are the same. Unlike other computers where you have to look where you are plugging it in. The Neo breaks that tradition.
Do you think those same users know the difference between usb3, usb4, and thunderbolt (or even that all three exist)? More over, do you think they know how to tell cables apart for the three?
$150 netbooks solved this by labeling the ports "SS" or using blue USB-A inserts, but those are matters inferior PC users have to deal with.
I legitimately have no idea what "SS" means next to a port, and I've seen it plenty of times. Labeling doesn't solve everything. The message on screen that you get when you plug something into the wrong port on the Neo is, obviously, much better because it assumes nothing about the user's knowledge except for the ability to read.
SuperSpeed, but you’re not supposed to use that as a consumer facing label anymore
> NOTE: USB4® Version 2.0, USB4® Version 1.0, USB 3.2, SuperSpeed Plus, Enhanced SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+ are defined in the USB specifications however these terms are not intended to be used in product names, messaging, packaging or any other consumer-facing content.
USB-IF’s recommended name for this port is now just “USB 10Gbps”
Not that I would expect an average consumer to understand that as a label, but at least it takes up less space and allows relative comparisons better than USB 3.0 SuperSpeed+ or whatever the old equivalent was.
https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_data_performance...
> I legitimately have no idea what "SS" means next to a port
surströmming
> it assumes nothing about the user's knowledge except for the ability to read.
Sometimes I question whether some users have that ability
Most people can read; it’s comprehending what they just read that’s the deal-breaker.
USB 3.0 was marketed as SuperSpeed USB. SS-marked ports should give you 5Gbit/s, compared to 480 Mbps USB 2.0.
I feel confident in saying that I am better at computers than 99.99% of the general population and I have no clue what “SS” or blue USB ports are supposed to indicate.
"Solved" - hardly. No one knows what those symbols mean.
Apple should show users an alert when they plug a USB-3 device into the USB-2 port because they are visually identical
Oh wait https://i.imgur.com/7HWgxZ1.png
I don't know the details of Apple's silicon designs, but I assume the USB port bandwidth is because this is using the chip from iPhone 16 Pro, a phone which of course had a single USB-3 port. They've done what they can with it to hit the price point.
The alternative was to not include a second USB port for charging, in which case people would be bitching about it not being able to use peripherals while charging like the last time they made a single port laptop.
This is why standardising in USB c the connector was a mistake.
Sometimes on HN while this is technically correct I wonder if Mac users will truly notice. This is probably a limitation of the A19 chip. Many people just see the price tag and buy.
USB 2.0 speeds are still fine for 99% of my USB transfer needs.
I bought a Neo as an out of the house computer and it really is a triumph. If the Air is good enough for 99% of the population, the Neo as is approaches good enough for 90% of the population at half the cost.
My wife bought a Neo and has been very happy with it. I was wary of the 8gb memory limit but she is running claude code doing web development with a reasonable number of tabs open and no noticeable lag, so I'd say its definitely getting a lot of mileage out of it.
It honestly seems good enough that it might cannibalize Macbook Air sales.
It might be more likely that it cannibalizes used Macbook Air sales.
After years of incremental upgrades to the Airs, a new entry level M5 Air gives you double the RAM, double the storage, and double the CPU and GPU performance of an M1 Air.
Hopefully used Airs will come up for sale more frequently, as they remain a step up from the Neo.
At double the price.
Sure.
Used M1 Airs are selling for roughly half the price of a new Neo.
which seem to be out of stock in any case, so probably not a loss for apple.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac
I am running Claude Code, Claude Desktop, Codex and Docker Desktop on a last generation Intel Air, that admittedly has 12 GB RAM. One has to be a bit careful with more apps. But I look forward to an upgrade. Maybe a Neo, but more likely a second hand M.
Whatever you do, do not try one out before you’re ready to buy.
How on Earth did you find a wife who codes? Asking for a friend.
I can top that (he said bitterly). My wife is still gorgeous after 30+ years of marriage and is a 10x programmer. But she was happy when given the choice not to work when we married, and hasn’t touched a compiler in decades.
I did well in business, but the family joke is that I’d be a billionaire if I could have monetized her.
Macbook Neo is amazing, so impressed what Apple can deliver for so little.
That said, my sister this morning asked if she should buy a Macbook Neo. I pointed her to a refurb M2 Macbook Air with 16GB of RAM for the same price. I feel like that's the right call? Slower single-core performance but better multi-core and I think for 90% of normal people use cases the RAM is the limit before the CPU.
Are others making the same calculation?
I think I would cut the line at M3 or above. I think M2 uses an older architecture and it doesn't have WiFi 6E in it, and of course single core is a bit lower. Also M2 batteries are about maybe halfway done already unless the refurb replaced the battery.
If the used ones are out there the more RAM is probably the way to go - but colors!
The reality is nobody is noticing differences between the M1 and anything afterwards, really - those that do will know enough to pick their laptop.
The Neo is pretty great, and the compromises are totally reasonable at the price point. But if they do a second generation with A19 Pro (and thus 12GB RAM) and a slightly better cooling system then it would really be fantastic.
You can use a small thermal pad on the current Neo to bridge to the case, which helps with temps quite a bit.
I do this with my old 2017 MacBook Air and while the case gets pretty hot, it reduces throttling on the old Intel processor a lot. It felt like a new computer after replacing the thermal paste and adding that pad.
Apparently the neo doesn't really get hot enough to really notice to the touch with the pad to the case.
> if they do a second generation with A19 Pro
I'm pretty sure it's a "when", not "if".
Idk, I think they are regretting the unit economics of the Neo, and it is likely cannibalizing the Air sales.
Maybe some... but they're likely picking up a lot of people that would have gone with a $500-700 windows laptop instead.. and the margins are similar, so they're probably well ahead.
intentionally cannibalizing their own sales is iirc the official apple policy: iphone destroyed ipod and was one of the best business mives of all time
iPhones were more expensive than iPods though
I miss the iPod right now lol. Give me a nano!
If they can use this product to lock more people into their ecosystem it'll work. As a lifelong windows/android user, I've been eyeing up the neo.
Also, the Neo is just cheap enough that it's a product I'd consider buying that I don't need. I'm not in the market for a new laptop and certainly not an Air. So I'm a demographic considering this product that is not going to cannibalize their existing sales. There's gotta be at least a dozen people like me!
Probably true. I hope they do it next year, but I suspect it might the following one.
We just bought the Neo for our daughter to use at school. My biggest concern was the trackpad. This is the first MacBook to not use a force touch trackpad since they were introduced. I must say that the new trackpad is really good. It's not quite as good as the force touch one in my MacBook Pro, but it's close. We will see how well the Neo holds up over time, but it's off to a good start.
I never use the physical touch on the MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. It’s one of the first things I configure so that a light tap is a click. It somehow feels “faster” to me.
It’s certainly better than most trackpads on non Macs, especially because it “clicks” ok even on the top part.
The trackpads on the old (pre-force-touch MacBooks) were really good. The force-touch is (IMO) slightly better, but it's a slight difference.
I'll agree they were all great, but I liked the change to force-touch more.
The uni-body pre force-touch trackpads clicked on a hinge from the top and you would need to press much harder in that area.
I've had many MacBook Pros but never thought about that. I guess mine has too. How do I use it? I just tap lightly to click.
pretty much the only time I use it is to lookup the definition of a word by highlighting it and force clicking. Can't do that with the magic mouse.
I still have AnandTech in a prime spot on my bookmarks toolbar. I miss the site so much and welcome any reviews like this that attempt to capture their level of detail when reviewing a product.
You tried arstechnica? they do pretty good reviews.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/03/apple-macbook-neo-re...
> If Apple had branded the A18 Pro as “M4 Lite,” nobody would have blinked.
Apple fumbled the ball here. They should have called it the "M4 Mini", and this device the "MacBook mini".
Also, OP: Have you considered doing this professionally? I'd read this as the next AnandTech.
"Mini" usually denotes physical size. Is the neo physically smaller than the air?
Smaller, yes. Not thinner.
it also looks really nice. at the Apple Store, the chassis seems well machined. the "cheaper" apple logo insert also clearly also incurred some expense as it fit into the lid perfectly. Hinge, keyboard and trackpad felt good. Design team clearly took time to telegraph craft and quality in their product.
> Apple has to keep macOS running well within 8GB, which is actually a nice forcing function against bloat and inefficiency. We could all use a little more of that.
Hmm, I have a very different understanding of how Apple uses forcing functions. Prematurely slowing iPhones with older batteries regardless of charge level as a forcing function to upgrade is what I take away. When the 12GB Neo's are out, I expect another bit of bloat in Liquid Glass or other to motivate the upgrade.
Apple's throttling was an undisclosed optimization that was controversial because it was not disclosed. The optimization itself was not controversial. It was not premature either. If the battery's measurable levels (impedance, current, voltage, etc.) fell out of nominal range, then throttling occurred. FWIW I somewhat resent having to 'defend' Apple here, but your narrative frame here has too much speculation for a situation finalized in fact in 2017, almost 10 years ago.
It wasn't an "optimization", it's because aging batteries have unstable voltage and the phone was likely to shut down otherwise.
Recently dived into mac world (air) too after decades of win/linux.
Pleasant experience and very impressed by hardware and polish except wow the keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed.
Who decided that sometimes its cmd+Q to close a window while other times its cmd+W and some apps support both but with different behaviours and knowing which of the three it is depends on knowing what's an OS window (but not all OS windows)? Or why is taking a screenshot of an area to clip it a FOUR key combo with one of them being a random number (the key 4). I can definitely memorize it and get used to it, but were the designers high as a kite when it was shortcut design day?
The cmd+q is the "quit" command. And the convention in single-window apps (or ones that have a single unambiguous main window) is that the window only closes when the app is quit. So this is command you have to give.
For "document-based" apps (think almost anything where you open multiple files), the application can stay running even if there are no open windows. So you have both cmd+q and cmd+w available to you.
You can probably come up with some apps that don't cleanly fit these two, but that is what Apple has.
As to screen shot commands, it is a three-key chord because it is system-wide, and they did not want to step on any toes that the apps might have. And there are a few versions: shift-command-3 takes the entire screen shift-command-4 takes either a window or a section (press space bar to switch between them) shift-command-5 opens a more menu-based system that includes a timer
Why 3, 4, and 5 (and not 1 or 2)... I don't know. Maybe there was something in those spots at some point.
Command - Shift - 1 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 1" and Command - Shift - 2 was "Eject Floppy Disk in Drive 2". I kid you not, that's how old these keyboard shortcuts are, they date back to the 80's.
> keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed
You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app). You don't even need to memorize them.
When I first switched to Mac after using Ubuntu for 4 years before that, I didn't expect this level of customization. It's misunderstood because Apple doesn't advertise this.
>You know, you can change almost any shortcut you want with Karabiner (app)
That's actually my other complaint. "Fixing" problems with the OS with mystery apps.
Connected an external mouse. Mouse wheel is inverted...weird? Google it. Yeah you can toggle it. Thank goodness. Apple knew people use mice. Oh but that inverts the trackpad too. WHAT? You're joking. I need to pick between a sane trackpad and sane mouse? I own both and need both to work to work in a not upside down manner.
Climb onto an AI and ask it what to do because this is insanity like surely not this can't be how it is. LLM goes yeah no that's just macos you need to install a mystery app to unfuck it.
Don't get me wrong my overall experience is positive and there has been the expected learning curve which is fine ofc, but also a fair bit of "what the actual F how are people OK with this".
cmd-W closes windows and cmd-Q quits the App. That Apps can stay open without having a Window is actually useful (at least it makes sense to me).
@screenshot
Mac has always been kind of amazing for the granular options you get to take screenshots out of the box.
• Command - Shift - 3 | Takes a fullscreen pic of the entire display. Loads a preview in the bottom right corner. Click to expand, and from there edit, share, save, delete, etc.
• Command - Shift - 4 | Turns your mouse cursor into a crosshair. Drag to create a rectangular window. Takes a capture of the contents when done. Escape or right-click to cancel. Preview loads the same as above.
• Command - Shift - 5 | Brings up a rectangular section that can be moved around and resized.
But any shortcut can be remapped:
Go to System Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Screenshots
>cmd-W closes windows and cmd-Q quits the App.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
Cmd-W closes the current *document*. In tabbed apps, the document is the tab.
It is true that Finder is always running, you can’t quit it or kill it.
The standard behavior is that:
Command Q quits the currently active application.
Command W closes the current window without quitting the active application.
>Command Q quits the currently active application.
Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
>Command W closes the current window
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
That's 3 different apps made by apple and preinstalled by apple...three different behaviours
>standard behavior
It isn't and its a tribute to human adaptability to chaos that mac crowd thinks this is standardization
> Open Finder. cmd+Q. Does it quit anything? Nope nothing happens.
You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
> Safari
Multiple tabs in a window are intended to be treated the same as multiple windows. This has been the case since macOS made tabbed interface components a standard part of the OS.
> Open Apps
What do you mean? Which apps?
>You can’t quit finder - it’s a fundamental part of the hi that always has to run.
That's what google told me after I set out to discover what rules are behind the inconsistency. The solution to inconsistent shortcuts is apparently memorizing which parts of the software that is PREINSTALLED is considered part of the OS and which parts are not.
>Which apps?
Not apps small a...Apps big A...the thing apple macs ship with on the dock and literally entitled "Apps". That baked into the default install window just behaves differently from both finder style built in OS things and Safari also built in but different built in not part of OS. Why? I don't fuckin know. Neither Q nor W make it go away. OK so hit esc. Does that make the window go away? It turns it into a smaller window that now performs a different function?!?!? Spotlight. OK so now i need to memorize what is an preinstalled OS window, preinstalled not os window, preinstalled not os window not app window but some sort of launcher I guess?
So a new user is basically guessing which of THREE keys combos may or may not make the window go away or possible do nothing or do something else entirely (close tab).
I feel like I'm being gaslight by all the hn users telling me yeah that makes sense
I'm so used to macos now that I don't even realize that this is confusing. What OS did you use before, windows? is there no distinction between quiting an app and closing a window on windows?
What app doesn’t support cmd-w?
Some apps close window. Some apps close tabs. Some apps can close tab or window. Some apps require double press (chrome)
That’s chrome being a dick - it chrome has an option to undo that (and it’s cmd-q they dickified, not cmd-w).
Open apple TV. cmd+w -> minimizes window. Open Safari. same keys - cmd+w. Closes current window? Nope. Closes tab. Open Apps. Cmd+w. Does it close window? Close Tab? Nope...third option...does fucking nothing.
As an outsider it boggles my mind that apple crowd doesn't notice how all over the place macos shortcuts are.
The “8gb gamble” could be seen as a misleading headline.
The review is very fair - it’s an amazing bit of kit for the money.
for vibe coding stuff, especially when you're outside touching grass, I believe MacBook Neo is perfect. it fills the gap between the phone remote control (which is too painful for chatting with ai cli) and, well, not having any dev device.
Do people really do that when out in the wild?
It's one of the nicest things to do if you love computers, and great for your health compared with staying indoors.
> Could one actually work like this, typing and everything? After my “heart-rate discovery” I decided I had to try it. I thought I’d have to build something myself, but actually one can just buy “walking desks”, and so I did. And after minor modifications, I discovered that I could walk and type perfectly well with it, even for a couple of hours. I was embarrassed I hadn’t figured out such a simple solution 20 years ago. But starting last fall—whenever the weather’s been good—I’ve tried to spend a couple of hours of each day walking outside like this
https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-prod...
https://quantifiedself.com/blog/stephen-wolfram-finds-workin...
How do you deal with screen glare?
I'm not OP but I work outside and use light mode. Macs are generally fairly bright as long as you aren't in direct sunlight. Solarized light mode for the win though.
Back when I did much work outside, I used a laptop that had accidental transflective characteristics. In bright sunlight, the LCD actually become quite clear monochrome, with some pixels acting as mirrors and others not, but I don't think they designed the LCD to do that.
You get an Apple product. At least, for me it was that simple. The ThinkPad I had was pretty high end, and I was using polarized glasses and even a sun shade to work at the park while the girls played. Bought a MacBook and the screen seems to crisply outshine even the sunniest days -- I haven't had to worry about outdoor use since, to my recollection.
+1 to this. Those screens are great in ways that specs just don't show you.
Moving to the UK is one option. It's been cloudy for about 7 months!
LLM addicts do. The AI overlord said to touch grass, because it is beneficial, but they've glanced over the main part of "disconnect from everything".
It can't run LLMs very well, you'll be limited to tiny models with no coding ability and they'll be slow.
i assumed you're connected to internet and using codex/claude code
I'm pretty disappointed in the Neo's battery life though, it limits a lot how much you can do on the go.
How fast can it recharge is probably the main limiting factor. I’m used to finding power wherever I can from the bad old days, but the M1 laptops have spoiled me.
Id pay an extra $150 for the haptic trackpad tbh
What if you cool the chassis really really well??? Does throttling go away?
https://youtu.be/lswbpVtAhrc?si=N_z_g0aZmoOUz_Cs
> tl;dw Copper shim mod (using laptop bottom as heatsink) leads to 2x performance over stock.
I may buy a Neo just to do this. Intrigued.
I think the only gap I’ve come across is that trying to drive two monitors through a display link dock it doesn’t really have the GPU to not have that be laggy.
This might win big in emerging markets where there is a desire for a high-quality laptop for non-programmers.
12gb bump soon? I don’t see that happening. It’s Apple.
$600 laptop? I don’t see that happening. It’s Apple.
The A19 Pro has 12GB. I would bet on an upgrade to that 2 years after release, but a one year update is possible.
I’ve heard rumors that they’ve run out of A18s and had to pay special for more, so it’ll be interesting to see how they handle this going forward.
Why is the author considering Claude Code a "real developer workflow"? Unless you're doing complex tool calling, is CC really resource-heavy?
Why does a "real developer workflow" need to be resource-heavy?
I am heavy developer guy.
and this is my developer. She consumes one hundred fifty gigabytes and runs two hundred thousand dollar, custom-tooled GPUs at ten thousand tokens per minute. It costs four hundred thousand dollars to develop…for twelve seconds.”
[Laughs]
“Oh my Claude, who touched settings.json? Alright…Who touched my LLM!?”
IDE written in Java indexing 10K files, compiling + running spring boot apps that take 30 seconds to start on the M4, or C++ compilation, or rust compilation.. Or maybe you were sarcastic?
Yes, Claude Code can use a lot of RAM.
The question thus, is how does the Neo perform if I put it on top of an ice pack?
Yup, was wondering the same, that would be a great follow up article by author
Or mod it so it burns your junk but makes you the heatsink :D
A lot of people have used a thermal pad to bridge the CPU to the case.. it doesn't really get that hot, and you get a >5% performance bump.
I already have half dozen over decade old laptops with 4-8GB of RAM in the drawer, don't need any more.
> Yes, 8GB of RAM is a real limitation. But give it a year and the next version will almost certainly ship with 12GB and a modest CPU bump.
We'll be able to have six browser tabs open instead of four?