63 comments

  • Freak_NL 3 hours ago ago

    So why are us southpaws a rarity? The article and the linked research paper both point to bipedalism and bigger brains as the cause, and the paper vaguely seems to hint at selective pressures leading to the right hand getting favoured by the majority of the population, but why?

    The question from the headline is excellent, if only it was actually answered.

    • nephihaha an hour ago ago

      I remember reading that there is evidence that Neanderthals tended to be left handed. Someone else might be able to confirm/debunk this.

    • scythe 3 hours ago ago

      Here's my five minute lunchtime hypothesis: it's because the heart is on the left. As human behavior demanded increasing precision from the hands, being a little farther from the heartbeat was a slight advantage.

      • gherkinnn 3 hours ago ago

        Wikipedia on Situs Inversus (visceral organs are mirrored, heart on the right, liver on left) [0], mentions mixed results regarding handedness. There would be a load of other confounding factors here and I know nothing about medicine.

        0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situs_inversus

        • xattt an hour ago ago

          Childhood handedness development within the brain became independent of organ positioning, after positioning had become established.

        • scythe an hour ago ago

          Situs inversus ("dextrocardia") is a rare disorder. What I postulated is a (very) small selective advantage leading to a neurological mechanism evolving over generations, not a direct line from the heart to handedness during development. Anyway, the effect would be very slight, and even if it did exist, it could have gone away later, but dexterity would have been baked in at that point (see also the ocular blind spot).

      • gpm 3 hours ago ago

        If this was the case wouldn't it be easier to measure the pulse in peoples left wrists? Which doesn't seem to be a thing?

      • yawpitch 3 hours ago ago

        Here’s my multiple years of anatomy classes response: the heart isn’t on the left. The aorta is, sure, but the vena cava is on the right. Also people with situs inversus (essentially all organs flipped laterally from “normal”) aren’t obviously more prone to left-handedness.

        • cortesoft an hour ago ago

          > Also people with situs inversus (essentially all organs flipped laterally from “normal”) aren’t obviously more prone to left-handedness.

          I feel like this isn’t really an argument against the theory. If right handedness did evolve because of heart position, a later genetic mutation to have the heart on the opposite side wouldn’t suddenly undo the previous evolution towards right handedness.

        • throwway120385 an hour ago ago

          It might be hard to eliminate confounding factors depending on when the research was done. A lot of people in my generation were still dissuaded pretty heavily from writing with their left hands. I'm not entirely convinced anymore as a lay person that "handedness" is a real, distinct phenomenon that's primarily genetically determined or a result of the organization of the brain. It's equally possible that it's a learned preference and that the way the brain organizes around it is as a result of the preference's impact on how you have to solve problems with your preferred hand in a society that preferences right-handedness.

        • undefined 2 hours ago ago
          [deleted]
        • rybosworld 2 hours ago ago

          Not disagreeing that handedness is probably unrelated to heart position.

          But why would situs inversus somehow be tied to this at all? If there's a gene that favors right-handedness, it's not like it would somehow "choose" left-handedness because the individual has their internal organs flipped.

        • stackghost 2 hours ago ago

          >Here’s my multiple years of anatomy classes response: the heart isn’t on the left.

          Why is the left lung smaller, then?

          • rolph 2 hours ago ago

            not only smaller but having 2 lobes rather than 3, the left lung is possessed of a featureknown as the cardiac "notch" an involution of the lobe that corresponds to the larger left ventricle of the heart.

          • altruios 2 hours ago ago

            More piping to and from the heart exists on the left instead of the right?

            • rolph 2 hours ago ago

              the Aorta and Vena Cava are muchmore central than sinistral.

              the aortic arch begins decent left of the coronary corpus, but becomes centralized, tandem with the Vena Cava.

          • yawpitch 2 hours ago ago

            The heart is asymmetrical, but it’s in roughly the center of the chest. The left auricle and ventricle are larger muscles because they’re pumping through the descending aorta to the extremities, that’s the systemic circulatory branch, the plumbing for which is also largely to the right, while the right are pumping into the lungs alone as part of the pulmonary circulatory branch. The left lung (right on those with situs inversus) has two lobes and basically accommodates the extra muscle mass on its side of the heart, but if you really want to kill someone you stab them through the sternum, kind of dead center, not where they hold their hand when performing patriotism.

            • stackghost an hour ago ago

              >if you really want to kill someone you stab them through the sternum, kind of dead center, not where they hold their hand when performing patriotism.

              Noted, thanks.

              • rolph an hour ago ago

                even this is wrong, a penetrating weapon aimed for the heart is applied below the sternum at roughly the positionof the 3rd shirt button, and thrust upward at shallow angle topass behind the manubrium, and is then levered into a pommel upward position so as to lacerate the heart

      • booleandilemma an hour ago ago

        I wonder why you're getting downvoted? Even if it turns out you're completely wrong it's still an interesting point and something I never even considered before.

        • scythe an hour ago ago

          Sometimes I think people downvote me because they're frustrated that I didn't engage further. After twenty years of Internet discussions, I'm a little burned out and I tend to fire and forget.

  • adrian_b 40 minutes ago ago

    It is a very bad choice of words to say that "bipedalism" is a cause for hand specialization.

    For hands, it is completely irrelevant how many legs a human has, regardless if a human had used 2, 4, 8, 14 or any other number of legs for walking, the hands would have become specialized.

    The reason why the hands acquired specialized roles was that they were no longer used for locomotion, i.e. for brachiation in the trees, like in orangutans or gibbons, but their purpose became holding, controlling and moving various objects from the environment.

    It is wrong to say that bipedalism has freed the hands to be used for other activities than locomotion, because the causality was reverse, locomotion became restricted to the hind legs, because the hands were used for other activities, like throwing sticks and stones, so they were no longer available for locomotion.

    The strong specialization of the 2 hands has appeared because in most cases when something is transformed with the hands, e.g. bones are broken to get the marrow or stones are knapped to get a cutting edge, one hand must be used to fix in place the object that is processed, while the other hand must move against it, normally with some tool.

    For the former role, the left hand became specialized, while for the latter role, the right hand became specialized.

    Similar specialization is also seen at other animals where a pair of legs is no longer used for locomotion, but it is used for manipulation, for instance at crabs and lobsters.

    So there is no doubt that the specialization of the hands was a necessity when they stopped being used for locomotion. However, it is not known why the right hand became the moving hand and the left hand became the holding hand, and not vice-versa. It could have been a random event or it could have been related to the asymmetry in the locations of the unpaired internal organs, like heart, liver, stomach and so on.

  • Stevvo 27 minutes ago ago

    I taught English in China 20 years ago. Of the thousands of students I taught, none wrote with their left hand.

    "There are no left-handed in China" might sound as ridiculous as "There are no gays in Uganda".

    However of those thousands of students, none had messy hand writing. In any class in Europe or the US, around 10% of students have messy writing. Suspiciously equivalent to the supposed number of left-handed students.

  • taeric 2 hours ago ago

    I am curious at what age hand preference develops. And can you exert any influence on that development?

    In particular, I would expect the influences to be somewhat counter intuitive. With things like having to use the left hand to hold a caregiver's hand in early walking preferencing the right for accessory use. At infant ages, it would be neat to see if preference of holding a baby on a side influences things.

    • Technolithic an hour ago ago

      The introduction of this article makes reference to a couple of papers (e.g. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-017-16827-y ) that handedness is observable in utero but cautions small sample sizes for these studies.

      • taeric 36 minutes ago ago

        Right, my question was more meant for how well established that is. And if it is open to influence. My searches made it look like it was not positive that handedness was fixed until a bit later. Still before formal schooling, but not necessarily in babies.

  • hypnodrones 3 hours ago ago

    I would be interested in studies into impact of left hemisphere importantce on the right hand usage, possibly the more sophisticated and "logical" usage of our hands pressured it as well.

    • yawpitch 3 hours ago ago

      One of many articles out there debunking the pop-psych mythology around brain lateralization: https://themindcompany.com/blog/left-brain-right-brain-myth

      • rybosworld an hour ago ago

        It's true that the creative vs. logical side of the brain is mostly a myth.

        But the hemispheres absolutely DO specialize in very predictable ways. Core language faculties are almost always handled by the left hemisphere, for instance.

        Face processing is almost universally handled by the right hemisphere.

        We know these things from people who have suffered an injury to one of their hemispheres. A person with damage to the right hemisphere has a chance of not being able to recognize faces, but that's almost never seen in an injury that exclusively effects the left-hemisphere.

      • hypnodrones 2 hours ago ago

        Thanks! Although I understand there is still some specialization in each of the hempispheres, which could influence it, but I probably went too strong with my imagination here.

        • Phemist 2 hours ago ago

          Left-handed people are often excluded from participating in MRI studies. To my personal dismay, as these studies often paid 25 euros per hour ~20 years ago, a significant sum for my student self that I could not partake in. It has however given me significant doubts about any strong lateralization claims...

  • NickC25 3 hours ago ago

    What does it say for mixed-handed folks like myself (different skillsets per hand - in other words, throw and write with different hands)? What about cross-dominance (different body parts differ on dominant side - in other words, a right-handed person being left-foot dominant)?

    I've been told that it's effectively a mental illness if discovered during childhood (as is ambidexterity). Yet I can't help but think that it is not a mental illness, but rather something else.

    • tejohnso 3 hours ago ago

      In order to present it as a mental illness there would have to be some kind of negative effect, wouldn't there? These differences you mention don't stand out as harmful or even disadvantageous.

    • Someone an hour ago ago

      > I've been told that it's effectively a mental illness if discovered during childhood (as is ambidexterity). Yet I can't help but think that it is not a mental illness, but rather something else.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness#Types: “Mixed-handedness or cross-dominance is the change of hand preference between different tasks. This is about as widespread as left-handedness.”

      ⇒ about 20% of the population is not strictly right-handed. That’s not a majority, but I think the word to use for that is “normal”.

    • MSFT_Edging 2 hours ago ago

      I'm sorta here too. I'm right handed, no external pressure to use one hand or the other in early age. Mother is a lefty, father is a righty. As a result I often used the computer mouse on either side as a kid, really wherever it was left by the last user.

      Learned to shoot a bow as a kid but only learned as an adult I'm left eye dominant, and to take advantage would require re-learning the bow in my left hand(many many strikes on my arm sent be back to a righty). Shooting guns is a similar situation, but I'm a fairly good shot regardless. It definitely makes using sights weird.

      I'm semi-ambidextrous too, with enough focus I can somewhat cleanly write with either hand, and I'm generally good with my hands in fine tasks, with only a minor preference to pick up a tool with my right hand.

      I wonder how common this is. People seem surprised when I demonstrate my left handed writing.

    • liquidise 2 hours ago ago

      Left-footed and right-handed. I find my "handedness" follows where the activity is driven from (upper/lower body).

      Soccer, snowboarding, batting, golfing: lefty

      Writing, throwing, tennis, pool: righty

      • nephihaha 2 hours ago ago

        "Left-footed and right-handed"

        Same as Mickey Dolenz who drummed for the Monkees. Very unusual combination.

    • jvanderbot 2 hours ago ago

      You were probably a left-handed person who was taught to write/use tools with their right hand in kindergarten. I got this treatment too.

      • bkjelden 2 hours ago ago

        I'm otherwise a lefty but I use computer mice right handed, because when I first started using a computer in elementary school all of the computer labs were set up right handed.

        • toast0 an hour ago ago

          FWIW, I'm a righty, but relearned to use a mouse left handed for ergo benefits at my first real job; now I left mouse for work and right mouse for home. I prefer ambidextrous mice anyway, but it's really hard to find a left hand mouse if you want that. Even the ambidextrous mice often have thumb buttons for the right thumb. It's not to hard to learn to use a pointer with either hand; IMHO as someone who can't do a lot of complex motion with my non-dominant hand. I think there's a lot of convenience gained by accepting right mousing, although it is a longer reach if you have a keyboard with stuff to the right of your letters.

      • SoftTalker 2 hours ago ago

        When was that? I know it used to happen, but I haven't heard of or seen that in my lifetime, I'm nearly 60.

        • toast0 an hour ago ago

          My parents generation is maybe a bit older than you, one of my mom's siblings was forced to right handedness. My mom is left handed and says they tried a little with her, but it only took for some things.

        • jvanderbot 2 hours ago ago

          Probably because it didn't happen to you, or kindergarteners don't know better and just play along. I only remember it because I was a little shit and got into a big fight about it. It would have been late 80s.

          • Hotdogsteve 2 hours ago ago

            An elementary school teacher of mine had this happen to her (this was in the early '90s, so her experience I'm guessing would have been in the late '60s).

            One day she wrote her name twice on the whiteboard and asked us to identify the difference between the two; visually they were identical, but she wrote one with her left hand and one with her right. She said as a kid she was made to use her right hand when she started showing signs of left-hand dominance.

          • bluGill 2 hours ago ago

            I didn't know what difference it made and there was one left handed scissors so it went to the kid who knew. I'm left eyed and often wonder if I should have learned to write left handed.

        • rolph 2 hours ago ago

          it happened to me, and when my parents found out they flipped out.

          i found out about my parents reaction like everyone else,, suddenly there was a bunch of screaming profanity and acoustic violence coming from the principals office

      • NickC25 21 minutes ago ago

        I don't know - my grandmother (father's mom) was fully left handed. My dad writes left handed but everything else right handed.

        I am left handed for fine motor skills (writing, fork/knife) but throw righty and play single handed sports with my right (except for table tennis which i can do either hand at a good level). I can play two handed sports (hockey, lacrosse, golf) pretty much with either hand with little issue. Right footed, but can kick with my left pretty confidently.

  • krater23 3 hours ago ago

    Didn't I understood the text or is the 'why' not really part of it? I expected more than a vague 'because it slightly existed and then hands are free to do things and brains got bigger'. I miss the point.

    • PeterWhittaker 20 minutes ago ago

      They don't discuss a "why", so much as present data on the "how" and "when". If this work is valid and reliable, then it will be up to later research to propose and test hypotheses as the why.

      In a nutshell, the paper basically says that the lateralization that led to the predominance of right-handedness occurred around the time humans became bipedal and around the time of neuroanatomical expansion, possibly related to bipedalism.

      In other words, before these two changes, we used all four limbs for locomotion and had no preference for either forelimb for grasping. Then one or two things happened and right-handedness predominated. It seems that that neuroanatomical expansion took over the areas of the brain that previously allowed our left hands to be as capable as our right hands.

      I write "one or two things happened" because it wasn't clear to me from the paper whether the neuroanatomical expansion that led to lateralization was necessary to and part of bipedalism, i.e., caused by our locomotion bits taking over other parts of the brain to manage our balance, or whether it was merely coincident with it.

      Interesting questions asked and answered, more research needed.

    • stackghost 3 hours ago ago

      Actual study here: https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...

      My take is that when they added extra factors to the Bayesian model, the plot was such that humans were no longer outliers.

      Whether or not that's scientifically rigorous, or even interesting, I leave to others to determine.

  • jnakano89 3 hours ago ago

    [dead]

  • foofyter 3 hours ago ago

    [flagged]

  • raggi 3 hours ago ago

    [flagged]

    • Freak_NL 3 hours ago ago

      'Everyone' is treated as singular (aside from 'everyone are' sounding completely wrong).

      • shagie 2 hours ago ago

        Drop the "every" part and you can see the word that needs to be agreed with.

            "One is supposed to do such and such."
            "Everyone is supposed to do such and such."
            "They are supposed to do such and such."
            "People are supposed to do such and such."
        
        This also applies with "some"

            "Someone is supposed to do such and such."
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantifier_(linguistics)

        Part of the confusion may be that "everyone" is a single word while the example sentence in the Wikipedia article has a non-compound example.

            "Every glass is ..."
        
        The quantifier does not change the grammatical number of the subject.
      • 3form 3 hours ago ago

        I think that's the case for all the "every <noun>". "Every human is a person", for example. This would make sense, to put it in programming terms - the verb applies to an element in an array of people, not the array itself (which would be plural): for every single human, that human is a person.

    • cwnyth 3 hours ago ago

      Confidently incorrect.

    • darenr 3 hours ago ago

      No, grammatically "everyone" is an indefinite pronoun. a single collective unit.

    • stackghost 3 hours ago ago

      Is that a British thing? Nobody in North America uses "everyone are"

  • undefined 3 hours ago ago
    [deleted]
  • undefined 2 hours ago ago
    [deleted]