Regarding the price: the reality with all these alternative phones (e.g. the clicks communicator) is that you are going to have to pay a premium to make them worthwhile for the manufacturers. Scale (and the spyware economy) are what allow the larger companies to produce cheaper "better" phones, so comparing a phone like this with them on price isn't super productive. If you want something different than what the masses consume you are gonna have to pay for it.
The only ones that I've seen beat this dynamic to an extent are the unihertz phones.
I have always been surprised that "Nokia"/HMD haven't opened up more. The have really affordable Android phones (at some point the line-up was also pretty nice) and near-stock Android. So, they seem to have the volume to make reasonably cheap phones without to much spyware/adware. Sadly, they are only supported for a very brief period and even at release they often have outdated versions.
If they collab'ed with some AOSP-based alternatives and/or Jolla, they could build up a really nice alternative market. Especially because these niche phones generally have worse quality than what HMD can offer and being a Finish company, they could play well into the European tech sovereignty story.
Yeah, I'm actually excited about the Jolla phone supposed to launch in September. It's a bit on the expensive side but hopefully it will pave the way to a proper consumer friendly phone. Most of these phones comes with a gimmick too to make them more enticing but so far Sailfish OS is THE gimmick I'm actually excited about.
Hallucinated apps are a delusion, and Pine is just yet another random Chinese company remixing surplus hardware. They don't care what happens with the software, that's the plus and minus of it. They don't lock down the software, but nor do they actually provide any. You can run Android on Pine... if you port Android to Pine.
I hear that in China they have a lot of franken-PCs reusing recycled chips because they have all the PCB-level design and manufacturing expertise but they can't make chips. They'll take a GPU off its graphics card and solder it onto a laptop, or the reverse, stuff like that. And each design in low quantities based on what models of e-waste they can get. Pine is one of that kind of company although not nearly as extreme. A lot of their plastic cases are repurposed from other devices. The A64 chip is designed to go in set-top boxes. They don't do low-hundred quantities based on e-waste, obviously, they are set up for mass production but they're still using whatever parts they can get their hands on that are surplus to other companies' requirements. That's half the reason they discontinued so many products.
I have no idea who the customer is for this product.
I bought a C64U. I bought a MEGA65. I bought the T-shirt. I own nearly every original Commodore 8-bit. If anybody is the target market for Commodore products, I am the target market, and I am no more nostalgic about or interested in flip phones than I am about fax machines.
It's just like the good old days: Commodore execs shipping absurdly misguided products for the wrong price at the wrong time.
I think it's quite obvious that the target market has almost zero overlap with interest in the Commodore products from the 80s.
There's nothing wrong with a new company (new as of last year I think?) that owns the Commodore branding, and put out the C64U, to try putting out a new product for a different market.
The glowing Commodore icon just gives it a suitably vintage/retro feel that is aligned with the values of the device. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, is for a very specific group of people trying to digitally detox, who like a retro hardware aesthetic, that has nothing to do with C64 enthusiasts.
I guess. But, I have a hard time believing that market is large enough, or wealthy enough, to support the custom manufacture of a luxury dumb phone.
I've been wrong about products before. But, I've been right more often. I'm confident this product will be a flop. I'll be surprised if it breaks even. Shocked if it makes a profit. And, unsurprised if it proves to be the undoing of the new Commodore before it really ever even gets off the starting block.
The Samsung android flips are great but all this patent pending tech is just configurations on a non basic build of google.
Like the idea, commodore never had me in its nostalgia, too young, idea is cute, t9 keyboard is workable but I disagree that it’s viable. I want to be wrong of course but
Samsung and apple using their fold flip and discipline fixes the other side. People do not want to detox. Going back to a flip won’t fix it.
Same as the glp1 drugs, people knew food was bad, didn’t stop eating.
Started body shame movement. Now that movement seems to have gone silent, glp1s fixed obesity seemingly overnight.
So the question is, what is the future glp1 equilivant for digital detox, a simpler phone or a phone that makes it more complicated to get digital services isn’t it.
Then there’s the argument for price, photo quality and all. No one is going to take photos and edit on a desktop in photoshop or Lightroom. Same as for using two phones and transferring esims, their WhatsApp number, etc
I bought one of their C64 repros, it was exactly what I want, I was searching ebay for original Apple ][e at the time anyway.
Why? It's going to be my kids first computer.
Computers today are so absolutely hostile as they are simply attention-sucking sale-terminals. They spend all their time popping up unwanted notifications which are just advertising.
And the interface of modern devices is actually horrible for learning. Some stuff may be intuitive, but the biggest issue is that every slight movement, accidental tap or gesture is linked to something so for kids it's too easy to do something that exits the current program or bring up some sidebar. It's impossible even for me to connect "what did I just do?" with the sudden change in context. It makes it really hard to connect cause and effect. And don't even get me started on how dangerous apps like YouTube are for kids. The recommendation algo seems to surface click-farm scam content in no time. Or weird dopamine traps.
So my kids will start with a device that isn't constantly trying to sell things, they will learn to understand simple systems which has deterministic behavior.
Good luck, I mean that. Times have changed, my kids simply aren't interested in the things I was growing up, so as parents we decided not to force them but rather to positively reinforce whatever it is they want to do. That's not to say they can do whatever they want, of course, but they lead the direction.
This is a pocket Linux terminal with loads of untapped potential out of the box. Combining voice navigation with an ssh linked home AI server may make this a true privacy-first successor to the prying smartphone for the AI era. And there is the audio quality, with a battery that lasts a week. The Bluetooth tethering has a standby feature so any non-cellular wifi device you carry is effectively always connected as well. It won't drop like most smartphones. There is way more utility in this combo than the brick in your pocket we have to contend with now. I hope Commodore can see past the detox only and see what they have really created here. Meanwhile hackers can have a field day!!
I'm not sure about these new dumb phones. Just not having social media in the first place has worked alright for me.
I hate my phone, and my relationship with it, but sometimes you just need to use one.
My preferred strategy is having a normal phone, minimal apps, and just keeping it switched off most of the time, particularly round the house.
Thing is, I've got a worse problem with my laptop and desk. Between HN, lichess, and a handful of favoured blogs, I can easily blow a day doing nothing, without the help of a phone.
Honestly, I think something deeper than a different form factor is required. If anyone has found it, let me know.
The cool thing is running two phones w same number. One big market phone and one minimal. Take the minimal out most of the time and the big one when you need to.
I would use that phone if I had the ability to customise it to my needs. I don’t want meta apps nor Spotify preinstalled, but I would take the ability to install signal.
My biggest problem with dumb phones and similar concepts like this digital detox phone is the comparitively crappy cameras. I don't take photos often, but when I do I want them to be good.
They say that it has a 48MP camera so that shouldn't be a problem. I think I saw them comparing it to the iphone's camera even. Remains to be seen of course.
The reason the iPhone takes great photos is probably 95% because of the software. It’s 0% because of the number of pixels, and never was even since their early models.
I think the kind of user who gets a detox phone will also get an Instax or a second hand old Ixus.
Folks have a hard time reclaiming their attention from the never ending distractions of a smart phone. If commodore can make a device and ecosystem to make that happen, I’m sure folks will spend the money.
The reality though is, most folks don’t even think how much time they spend on phones, so I hope they can become profitable with devices sold in the thousands.
I just parental lock my wife’s phone and she parental locks mine. This has worked for us for nearly a decade now. Solutions that actually work often sound weird (because otherwise it wouldn’t be a problem in the first place), but yeah “ask my wife” and vice versa keeps us from installing Facebook and other apps that are rabbit holes while making it easy to remedy if I actually need it. To be clear, this is totally voluntary and we both choose our own blocks then say “hey add a password” or “hey I need to adjust, punch in the password”. I see it as similar to having a bank teller vs the ATM. Easy peasy and that little bit of friction has made our quality of life better.
In case you don't want to bother your spouse (or don't have one) you can use lockmeout.online as a simple online time lock service to hold numeric codes.
> Folks have a hard time reclaiming their attention from the never ending distractions of a smart phone.
It's actually surprisingly easy. Flash LineageOS and don't install any nonessential apps which includes no play services. At that point all you have is SMS and the browser. (If you find even just the browser too difficult to resist then configure parental controls I guess.)
Alternatively a less drastic action is to permanently set it to silent. You (and your contacts) get used to it after a few weeks.
> Flash LineageOS and don't install any nonessential apps which includes no play services.
I did this with GrapheneOS and a simple launcher. That said, it's not something the average person will ever want to, or maybe even be capable to, do. They want to just pay someone money and get a product that respects them.
If this does that, then it will be well received by the people who care enough to spend money on it. I'll actually be buying one when it launches. My custom solution is "fine"... It's also a pain in my behind.
The entire point of a "dumb" phone like this is to reduce the amount of attention it requires from me. Managing some custom ROM and keeping it up to date actually requires MORE attention in some ways. I kind of hate it even after a year or two of constant tinkering to make it fit me "just right". I'd rather have something that respects me out of the box and spend a little time adapting to it.
I'm all for something dumber than the average little black skinner box. The price doesn't really bother me as much as the side loading restrictions. If I'm going to pay $600 for a novelty phone I better be allowed to do whatever I want with it. Locking that behavior behind some fuzzy logic yes/no algorithm based on God only knows what LLM seems pretty tone deaf to what a lot of people have been saying about owning their own hardware over the last decade or so.
I need car play, eg maps + YouTube music. And fb and texto + messenger + whatsapp.
Price is irrelevant if i can get a “fully functional” phone without a browser. Oh i guess I could live without discord. But seems fine to have..
Speaking as someone who loved the hell out of the dysfunctional mess that was Commodore, and read every Compute's Gazette front to back as soon as it came out: FFS, just let them stay dead. I'm really sick of seeing my generation being strip-mined nonstop for nostalgia.
Overpriced relative to what? Phones that are produced at scale by the millions and so can have much lower prices due to economy of scale? That's going to be the case with anything produced in low volumes, but that doesn't mean they are overcharging for it.
Most tech products are sold at somewhere around 3-4x what it costs the company to make them.
Back when I designed phones, there was a minimum order of 50K units before an OEM would talk to you, and even then, they usually had a like-unit already in the production pipeline so they wouldn't have to retool everything.
That's the hardware. How much do you have to add on to cover the designer and software people's salaries and the CEO's profit, if you're only going to be able to sell 5 phones?
Regarding the price: the reality with all these alternative phones (e.g. the clicks communicator) is that you are going to have to pay a premium to make them worthwhile for the manufacturers. Scale (and the spyware economy) are what allow the larger companies to produce cheaper "better" phones, so comparing a phone like this with them on price isn't super productive. If you want something different than what the masses consume you are gonna have to pay for it.
The only ones that I've seen beat this dynamic to an extent are the unihertz phones.
I have always been surprised that "Nokia"/HMD haven't opened up more. The have really affordable Android phones (at some point the line-up was also pretty nice) and near-stock Android. So, they seem to have the volume to make reasonably cheap phones without to much spyware/adware. Sadly, they are only supported for a very brief period and even at release they often have outdated versions.
If they collab'ed with some AOSP-based alternatives and/or Jolla, they could build up a really nice alternative market. Especially because these niche phones generally have worse quality than what HMD can offer and being a Finish company, they could play well into the European tech sovereignty story.
That unihertz "Jelly Star" with it's small size and rounded corners looks like a good prison phone choice, but still a bit of a "stretch".
Yeah, I'm actually excited about the Jolla phone supposed to launch in September. It's a bit on the expensive side but hopefully it will pave the way to a proper consumer friendly phone. Most of these phones comes with a gimmick too to make them more enticing but so far Sailfish OS is THE gimmick I'm actually excited about.
My favorite phone of all time was my Nokia N9.
I would absolutely have another if there was an updated one.
Absolutely loved my N9! Used it for many years until I switched to Lumia series until 2018
Wonder why pine can't do this? Not dissing on commodore. With hallucinated apps, the gap is going to be really small with play store
Hallucinated apps are a delusion, and Pine is just yet another random Chinese company remixing surplus hardware. They don't care what happens with the software, that's the plus and minus of it. They don't lock down the software, but nor do they actually provide any. You can run Android on Pine... if you port Android to Pine.
I hear that in China they have a lot of franken-PCs reusing recycled chips because they have all the PCB-level design and manufacturing expertise but they can't make chips. They'll take a GPU off its graphics card and solder it onto a laptop, or the reverse, stuff like that. And each design in low quantities based on what models of e-waste they can get. Pine is one of that kind of company although not nearly as extreme. A lot of their plastic cases are repurposed from other devices. The A64 chip is designed to go in set-top boxes. They don't do low-hundred quantities based on e-waste, obviously, they are set up for mass production but they're still using whatever parts they can get their hands on that are surplus to other companies' requirements. That's half the reason they discontinued so many products.
Ok, so you raise the price so the manufacturers will make it. This creates a bigger problem: users won't buy it now.
No one designs a product to get manufacturers, all they need is to make a profit.
I have no idea who the customer is for this product.
I bought a C64U. I bought a MEGA65. I bought the T-shirt. I own nearly every original Commodore 8-bit. If anybody is the target market for Commodore products, I am the target market, and I am no more nostalgic about or interested in flip phones than I am about fax machines.
It's just like the good old days: Commodore execs shipping absurdly misguided products for the wrong price at the wrong time.
People who bought a Commodore typewriter in the 1950s probably weren’t specifically interested in the C64 in the 1980s either.
I think it's quite obvious that the target market has almost zero overlap with interest in the Commodore products from the 80s.
There's nothing wrong with a new company (new as of last year I think?) that owns the Commodore branding, and put out the C64U, to try putting out a new product for a different market.
The glowing Commodore icon just gives it a suitably vintage/retro feel that is aligned with the values of the device. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, is for a very specific group of people trying to digitally detox, who like a retro hardware aesthetic, that has nothing to do with C64 enthusiasts.
I guess. But, I have a hard time believing that market is large enough, or wealthy enough, to support the custom manufacture of a luxury dumb phone.
I've been wrong about products before. But, I've been right more often. I'm confident this product will be a flop. I'll be surprised if it breaks even. Shocked if it makes a profit. And, unsurprised if it proves to be the undoing of the new Commodore before it really ever even gets off the starting block.
> "You don’t need a Google account to operate the device."
Now that's progress.
It has the same core spec as a $120 (delivered) Samsung phone and will cost between $500-$600 (delivered).
The C64U is an amazing achievement but it seems too early to go for the smart phone.
Hopefully there is a niche and their business plan is viable for a small number of sales.
They're betting that the target demographic will pay a premium for the form factor, not so much the tech specs.
The Samsung android flips are great but all this patent pending tech is just configurations on a non basic build of google.
Like the idea, commodore never had me in its nostalgia, too young, idea is cute, t9 keyboard is workable but I disagree that it’s viable. I want to be wrong of course but
Samsung and apple using their fold flip and discipline fixes the other side. People do not want to detox. Going back to a flip won’t fix it.
Same as the glp1 drugs, people knew food was bad, didn’t stop eating. Started body shame movement. Now that movement seems to have gone silent, glp1s fixed obesity seemingly overnight.
So the question is, what is the future glp1 equilivant for digital detox, a simpler phone or a phone that makes it more complicated to get digital services isn’t it.
Then there’s the argument for price, photo quality and all. No one is going to take photos and edit on a desktop in photoshop or Lightroom. Same as for using two phones and transferring esims, their WhatsApp number, etc
The phone may not be dumb (we'll see) but the idea for new Commodore to release one is. Sorry to be so blunt.
I bought one of their C64 repros, it was exactly what I want, I was searching ebay for original Apple ][e at the time anyway.
Why? It's going to be my kids first computer.
Computers today are so absolutely hostile as they are simply attention-sucking sale-terminals. They spend all their time popping up unwanted notifications which are just advertising.
And the interface of modern devices is actually horrible for learning. Some stuff may be intuitive, but the biggest issue is that every slight movement, accidental tap or gesture is linked to something so for kids it's too easy to do something that exits the current program or bring up some sidebar. It's impossible even for me to connect "what did I just do?" with the sudden change in context. It makes it really hard to connect cause and effect. And don't even get me started on how dangerous apps like YouTube are for kids. The recommendation algo seems to surface click-farm scam content in no time. Or weird dopamine traps.
So my kids will start with a device that isn't constantly trying to sell things, they will learn to understand simple systems which has deterministic behavior.
Good luck, I mean that. Times have changed, my kids simply aren't interested in the things I was growing up, so as parents we decided not to force them but rather to positively reinforce whatever it is they want to do. That's not to say they can do whatever they want, of course, but they lead the direction.
This is a pocket Linux terminal with loads of untapped potential out of the box. Combining voice navigation with an ssh linked home AI server may make this a true privacy-first successor to the prying smartphone for the AI era. And there is the audio quality, with a battery that lasts a week. The Bluetooth tethering has a standby feature so any non-cellular wifi device you carry is effectively always connected as well. It won't drop like most smartphones. There is way more utility in this combo than the brick in your pocket we have to contend with now. I hope Commodore can see past the detox only and see what they have really created here. Meanwhile hackers can have a field day!!
Not really, it’s a 5 year old SOC that runs Sailfish.
You want a Linux box in your pocket? Why does a flip phone factor excite you?
It's genuinely small. You can put it in your pocket and forget that it's there. I'm continually amazed that people don't seem to want that.
I'd go this direction as long as it had a real keyboard... Maybe it's time for the blackberry to reemerge.
https://clicks.tech/communicator
Here you go:
https://lilygo.cc/collections/t-deck-series
I'm interested in the form factor and excited about the inclusion of a headphone jack but SailfishOS is the real selling point for me.
I'll buy this if there is a way to remove the app restrictions they have. Ideally, I should be able to flash the default SailfishOS
That’s the whole selling point of this phone, though. If they had made it easy to sideload Twitter, they might as well not make a phone.
Their FAQ says there's no way to disable the restrictions, but they also say you can sideload APKs.
Might as well get an Android flip phone?
Cheaper with a more powerful SOC and better feature set?
Disable your own features, don’t let Perifractic own you.
It runs Sailfish. That's something, I guess.
I'm not sure about these new dumb phones. Just not having social media in the first place has worked alright for me.
I hate my phone, and my relationship with it, but sometimes you just need to use one.
My preferred strategy is having a normal phone, minimal apps, and just keeping it switched off most of the time, particularly round the house.
Thing is, I've got a worse problem with my laptop and desk. Between HN, lichess, and a handful of favoured blogs, I can easily blow a day doing nothing, without the help of a phone.
Honestly, I think something deeper than a different form factor is required. If anyone has found it, let me know.
It’s not even a dumb phone. It’s a WhatsApp flip phone.
The cool thing is running two phones w same number. One big market phone and one minimal. Take the minimal out most of the time and the big one when you need to.
Tmobile used to let me do that but it was pricey.
It still is pricey, but you can already buy such a minimal one; it’s a smartwatch.
I would use that phone if I had the ability to customise it to my needs. I don’t want meta apps nor Spotify preinstalled, but I would take the ability to install signal.
My biggest problem with dumb phones and similar concepts like this digital detox phone is the comparitively crappy cameras. I don't take photos often, but when I do I want them to be good.
They say that it has a 48MP camera so that shouldn't be a problem. I think I saw them comparing it to the iphone's camera even. Remains to be seen of course.
The reason the iPhone takes great photos is probably 95% because of the software. It’s 0% because of the number of pixels, and never was even since their early models.
I think the kind of user who gets a detox phone will also get an Instax or a second hand old Ixus.
For some reason the diagram under the "Not Your Granny's Flip" heading has been AI-generated
The whole concept is hitting me like a Google studio AI suggestion taken to the extreme with contract manufacturing somehow on-tap.
Folks have a hard time reclaiming their attention from the never ending distractions of a smart phone. If commodore can make a device and ecosystem to make that happen, I’m sure folks will spend the money.
The reality though is, most folks don’t even think how much time they spend on phones, so I hope they can become profitable with devices sold in the thousands.
I just parental lock my wife’s phone and she parental locks mine. This has worked for us for nearly a decade now. Solutions that actually work often sound weird (because otherwise it wouldn’t be a problem in the first place), but yeah “ask my wife” and vice versa keeps us from installing Facebook and other apps that are rabbit holes while making it easy to remedy if I actually need it. To be clear, this is totally voluntary and we both choose our own blocks then say “hey add a password” or “hey I need to adjust, punch in the password”. I see it as similar to having a bank teller vs the ATM. Easy peasy and that little bit of friction has made our quality of life better.
In case you don't want to bother your spouse (or don't have one) you can use lockmeout.online as a simple online time lock service to hold numeric codes.
> Folks have a hard time reclaiming their attention from the never ending distractions of a smart phone.
It's actually surprisingly easy. Flash LineageOS and don't install any nonessential apps which includes no play services. At that point all you have is SMS and the browser. (If you find even just the browser too difficult to resist then configure parental controls I guess.)
Alternatively a less drastic action is to permanently set it to silent. You (and your contacts) get used to it after a few weeks.
> Flash LineageOS and don't install any nonessential apps which includes no play services.
I did this with GrapheneOS and a simple launcher. That said, it's not something the average person will ever want to, or maybe even be capable to, do. They want to just pay someone money and get a product that respects them.
If this does that, then it will be well received by the people who care enough to spend money on it. I'll actually be buying one when it launches. My custom solution is "fine"... It's also a pain in my behind.
The entire point of a "dumb" phone like this is to reduce the amount of attention it requires from me. Managing some custom ROM and keeping it up to date actually requires MORE attention in some ways. I kind of hate it even after a year or two of constant tinkering to make it fit me "just right". I'd rather have something that respects me out of the box and spend a little time adapting to it.
This is a similar idea to the lightphone. I would be curious to see a more detailed comparison of the twos features.
Commodore died in the 80-90s, this is the husk of a dead horse being beaten by some YouTuber.
Keeping my eye on this. I really like the general form factor and aesthetic here. The candy-like wired audio and chiptune ringtones are a fun bonus.
It looks awesome but I’d need to be able to swap an eSIM easily to switch back and forth from an iPhone.
eSIMs can't be swapped by design to increase lock-in. That's why I never buy a phone that requires an eSIM or use a carrier that only issues an eSIM.
I'm all for something dumber than the average little black skinner box. The price doesn't really bother me as much as the side loading restrictions. If I'm going to pay $600 for a novelty phone I better be allowed to do whatever I want with it. Locking that behavior behind some fuzzy logic yes/no algorithm based on God only knows what LLM seems pretty tone deaf to what a lot of people have been saying about owning their own hardware over the last decade or so.
Not Commodore-looking. Not nostalgic. Not novel. It unchecks all the boxes.
I’m saying that as a very happy C64U owner.
But it IS “digital detox” and Christian Simpson has said many times that’s what Commodore is.
Despite Christian’s YouTube channel being all about retro and nostalgia, that not what Commodore is about.
We had smart phones already before iOS and Android came to be, so the headline is a bit duh.
not so sure about this one.
Am I able to use the Transit app? That's one thing I'd really like to have.
I need car play, eg maps + YouTube music. And fb and texto + messenger + whatsapp. Price is irrelevant if i can get a “fully functional” phone without a browser. Oh i guess I could live without discord. But seems fine to have..
Speaking as someone who loved the hell out of the dysfunctional mess that was Commodore, and read every Compute's Gazette front to back as soon as it came out: FFS, just let them stay dead. I'm really sick of seeing my generation being strip-mined nonstop for nostalgia.
It’s as overpriced as the SpaceX IPO.
That'd mean they sell for more than the advertised price given how the stock went up after launch.
Well, somehow the laws of gravity don’t apply to SpaceX, nor to Tesla.
Overpriced relative to what? Phones that are produced at scale by the millions and so can have much lower prices due to economy of scale? That's going to be the case with anything produced in low volumes, but that doesn't mean they are overcharging for it.
Most tech products are sold at somewhere around 3-4x what it costs the company to make them.
Back when I designed phones, there was a minimum order of 50K units before an OEM would talk to you, and even then, they usually had a like-unit already in the production pipeline so they wouldn't have to retool everything.
I have no idea how much it costs to produce this phone, but if you asked me how much it should cost, I'd say about 200 USD.
That's the hardware. How much do you have to add on to cover the designer and software people's salaries and the CEO's profit, if you're only going to be able to sell 5 phones?
If all you sell is 5 phones, or even 500, the price doesn’t matter. A lemon is a lemon.
The BOM speaks for itself