Personally I would just use SDKMan & generate a Maven or Gradle build profile from a getting started page of Spring, Vert.x, Quarkus (or whatever library/framework your main work will be on).. . Many of them have interactive starter pages where you click all the things you think you will need and download the project that builds with a single command.
I don't find Java tooling at all difficult, compared to say Python or JavaScript.. but then again I've been using it for quite a while now so I may not be the best judge
I honestly find sdkman makes installing and managing basic java tooling a breeze. To me that's a solved problem, it's pretty danged nice.
This goes way beyond that; a whole set of dependencies that are very thoughtfully designed. If they maintain backwards compatibility, as the JDK stdlib does, for essentially ever, I might bite. I've seen a lot of these type of things come and go.
Some of the projects are actually forks from some of my open source from the company I founded (and later sold). Some have been around for quite a while (10+ years) and have some adoption as well.
To keep those projects going, I forked them and started Latte.
My plan is to keep working on all the projects and really start promoting it. I think it's a game changer for Java.
I'm currently working on adding HTTP/2 to our HTTP server. It's nearly done and looking really solid. And our benchmarks on it are looking like we'll be the second fastest HTTP server for Java.
It seems like this project tries to replace various battle tested and widely adopted things like sdkman, serialization libs, build systems, HTTP servers and web frameworks. Even if there's something wrong with any existing solution in every category, your scope looks a bit too ambitious, even the biggest frameworks with many contributors don't dare to do and support all of that.
I think that's why other platforms have done so much better than Java. NPM, Python, Ruby, DotNet, etc.
They all have dependency management, versioning, publishing, repository management, HTTP, web frameworks, and build tools as one complete ecosystem.
Latte's core systems are also battle tested (http, cli, jwt). They are forked from projects I built for FusionAuth, which supports around a billion users and has millions of downloads and tens of thousands of production deployments.
My biggest gripe with Java has always been the tooling ecosystem, almost every java engineer I know solves this with the attitude of "just use intellij".
No. I won't, I refuse to use that, and I refuse to give a company money just to use a language as efficiently as other languages.
I am very happy to see that there's progress being made here. I wish you the best of luck!
Btw, at first sight it's unclear what the scope of this is.
It seems to be one project, but then it's actually multiple smaller libraries and "Latte" is just the organisation?
Also is the dependency management not it's own project?
It's an ecosystem that includes a number of tools, libraries, etc. The organization (include the GitHub org) is called Latte. Each project is a GH repository under that.
The dependency management system is part of the `cli` tool. And the repository management is the `app` project and published to https://app.lattejava.org.
The `cli` tool is the foundation though. It's how projects start, build, run, release, and publish.
Yes, Java got complicated.
It's about time to simplify things (in the java universe & enterprise) and this is a good first effort, all the best!
Personally I would just use SDKMan & generate a Maven or Gradle build profile from a getting started page of Spring, Vert.x, Quarkus (or whatever library/framework your main work will be on).. . Many of them have interactive starter pages where you click all the things you think you will need and download the project that builds with a single command.
I don't find Java tooling at all difficult, compared to say Python or JavaScript.. but then again I've been using it for quite a while now so I may not be the best judge
I find that Maven and Gradle are quite complex. Creating a build file for a new project and publishing to Sonatype is extremely difficult.
Certainly those projects are solid, but I think there is a lot of room for improvement, and that's what I'm working on.
I honestly find sdkman makes installing and managing basic java tooling a breeze. To me that's a solved problem, it's pretty danged nice.
This goes way beyond that; a whole set of dependencies that are very thoughtfully designed. If they maintain backwards compatibility, as the JDK stdlib does, for essentially ever, I might bite. I've seen a lot of these type of things come and go.
I'm the author of Latte.
Some of the projects are actually forks from some of my open source from the company I founded (and later sold). Some have been around for quite a while (10+ years) and have some adoption as well.
To keep those projects going, I forked them and started Latte.
My plan is to keep working on all the projects and really start promoting it. I think it's a game changer for Java.
I'm currently working on adding HTTP/2 to our HTTP server. It's nearly done and looking really solid. And our benchmarks on it are looking like we'll be the second fastest HTTP server for Java.
It seems like this project tries to replace various battle tested and widely adopted things like sdkman, serialization libs, build systems, HTTP servers and web frameworks. Even if there's something wrong with any existing solution in every category, your scope looks a bit too ambitious, even the biggest frameworks with many contributors don't dare to do and support all of that.
I think that's why other platforms have done so much better than Java. NPM, Python, Ruby, DotNet, etc.
They all have dependency management, versioning, publishing, repository management, HTTP, web frameworks, and build tools as one complete ecosystem.
Latte's core systems are also battle tested (http, cli, jwt). They are forked from projects I built for FusionAuth, which supports around a billion users and has millions of downloads and tens of thousands of production deployments.
FusionAuth out of Denver?
Yep. Westminster technically.
That's the company I founded. I wrote most of the tools, frameworks, and libraries it uses.
can you find me on linked in or github? Love to talk, have a few ideas
I don't think java itself is the problem, the real problem is the overengineered, hard to debug libraries like spring.
About time.
My biggest gripe with Java has always been the tooling ecosystem, almost every java engineer I know solves this with the attitude of "just use intellij".
No. I won't, I refuse to use that, and I refuse to give a company money just to use a language as efficiently as other languages.
I am very happy to see that there's progress being made here. I wish you the best of luck!
IntelliJ has free open-source distribution so you don’t need to pay anything for using it. To each their own, I guess.
Btw, at first sight it's unclear what the scope of this is. It seems to be one project, but then it's actually multiple smaller libraries and "Latte" is just the organisation? Also is the dependency management not it's own project?
It's an ecosystem that includes a number of tools, libraries, etc. The organization (include the GitHub org) is called Latte. Each project is a GH repository under that.
The dependency management system is part of the `cli` tool. And the repository management is the `app` project and published to https://app.lattejava.org.
The `cli` tool is the foundation though. It's how projects start, build, run, release, and publish.
Hope that helps clarify things.