If it comes to the point you have to lay hands on them, you're already lost the battle. Time outs, loss of privileges, a guilt trip here and there are more effective if you're consistent.
Says who? I'm a Behavioral Programmer, clinically trained in the use of Behavior Modification/Management to address targeted inappropriate behaviors. I've seen the effect physical techniques have versus psychological techniques first hand. Physical pain only lasts a little while. Words can ring in your head forever.
Those techniques are psychologically damaging and to be used sparingly, lightly. and not at all in State Mental Health Facilities.
I think, any many parents I speak to, that raising children to be respectful and obedient feels harder than it ought to.
There's a tear in our society's fabric around parenting. Too many parents silently wish their kids didn't have phones, or play Roblox, or use Instagram, or ... the list goes on.
These same parents wish they were empowered to make their wishes come true. But they don't feel empowered.
A quick anecdote. We have a 5yo son whom we've decided to be withhold screens from for as long as humanly possible. This decision comes from lived experience with our other kids who are 8 and years older and not from having read a book or listening to podcasts. We've lived the nightmare once and hope to avoid it this time around.
Anyways, my son was at a playdate with a classmate of his which was supposed to be swimming outside. It wasn't long before his classmate kept asking his mom to go inside. Turns out, that classmate has some game console with Minecraft in the basement. Our son asked my wife if he could play play but sadly obliged to just watch. Now at home he says how badly he wants to play Minecraft.
What does this have to do with corporal punishment? I think video games and social media cause kids to be more self centered than if they spent the same time with other humans. And this leads to all sorts of behavioral challenges that parents feel ill equipped to handle.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the answer. But neither is gentle parenting. I think many parents are looking for something that works.
Scientific Evidence Supports Customary and Backup (Conditional) Spanking by Parents: Update of Larzelere and Baumrind (2010) and Fuller (2009)
Robert E Larzelere, Jason Fuller
2019, Session at the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts
Abstract
This outline provides pincite references for research supporting appropriate disciplinary spanking, in contrast to the predominantly correlational evidence used to oppose all spanking by the APA and AAP. Two major publications in the past year showed that (1) the correlational evidence against customary spanking becomes trivial after adjusting for pre-existing child differences. Moreover, that trivial evidence can be either harmful or beneficial on average, depending upon the statistical method used to adjust for pre-existing differences. (2) The second recent publication shows that the evidence against customary spanking is identical to the apparent effects of most corrective actions when analyzed in the same way (e.g., longitudinal analyses controlling statistically for initial differences in the outcome). This is true whether the corrective actions are by parents (e.g., other disciplinary responses) or professionals (treatments for depression in women). The outline summarizes other meta-analyses ignored in scientific summaries used to oppose all spanking and evidence that back-up spanking and phased-out spanking result in better outcomes compared to never-spanked children.
Probably depends on how you came to the opposite conclusion; if peer-reviewed research showed that outcome, it'd probably be a lot easier than if it was just "I turned out fine."
I've read comments that sound just like yours from consparicists any time another study disproves links between vaccines and autism. You might consider whether the reason the opposite view isn't well-regarded is because it's disproven.
Yeah I'm on a similar path myself. Instead of punishment, I connect with my kids first and then make them reflect on their behaviour and what impact it had.
It is very inefficient in the short term! It takes a lot of time and effort in the moment.
But now that mine are 10 and 12, parenting is not much work at all because they've developed skills over the long term that allows them to reflect on their behaviour. As parents we also model good apologies too.
I'm not ideologically opposed to punishment entirely, but it has never really had a place. The closest was when a child stayed out past their curfew and the natural consequence was that it showed they weren't ready for managing their time and we shortened their curfew.
But I do know other parents whose kids genuinely respond much better to very simple and firm commands. A lot of kids would just be confused and frustrated by our family's method of having to reflect on our behaviour verbally so often.
If it comes to the point you have to lay hands on them, you're already lost the battle. Time outs, loss of privileges, a guilt trip here and there are more effective if you're consistent.
Says who? I'm a Behavioral Programmer, clinically trained in the use of Behavior Modification/Management to address targeted inappropriate behaviors. I've seen the effect physical techniques have versus psychological techniques first hand. Physical pain only lasts a little while. Words can ring in your head forever.
Those techniques are psychologically damaging and to be used sparingly, lightly. and not at all in State Mental Health Facilities.
The memories of pain last forever. Words are only sounds that last an instant.
As the famous idiom goes, sticks and stones may break my bones but words can leave permanent psychological scars that may never heal.
Physical violence is definitely going to leave lasting effects, but words can still do the same.
I think, any many parents I speak to, that raising children to be respectful and obedient feels harder than it ought to.
There's a tear in our society's fabric around parenting. Too many parents silently wish their kids didn't have phones, or play Roblox, or use Instagram, or ... the list goes on.
These same parents wish they were empowered to make their wishes come true. But they don't feel empowered.
A quick anecdote. We have a 5yo son whom we've decided to be withhold screens from for as long as humanly possible. This decision comes from lived experience with our other kids who are 8 and years older and not from having read a book or listening to podcasts. We've lived the nightmare once and hope to avoid it this time around.
Anyways, my son was at a playdate with a classmate of his which was supposed to be swimming outside. It wasn't long before his classmate kept asking his mom to go inside. Turns out, that classmate has some game console with Minecraft in the basement. Our son asked my wife if he could play play but sadly obliged to just watch. Now at home he says how badly he wants to play Minecraft.
What does this have to do with corporal punishment? I think video games and social media cause kids to be more self centered than if they spent the same time with other humans. And this leads to all sorts of behavioral challenges that parents feel ill equipped to handle.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the answer. But neither is gentle parenting. I think many parents are looking for something that works.
See https://www.smartphonefreechildhood.org/
Yes, but as the poster said, I happened in another kids house. Very much for limiting screens for kids.
https://www.academia.edu/41057874/Scientific_Evidence_Suppor...
Scientific Evidence Supports Customary and Backup (Conditional) Spanking by Parents: Update of Larzelere and Baumrind (2010) and Fuller (2009) Robert E Larzelere, Jason Fuller
2019, Session at the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts
Abstract This outline provides pincite references for research supporting appropriate disciplinary spanking, in contrast to the predominantly correlational evidence used to oppose all spanking by the APA and AAP. Two major publications in the past year showed that (1) the correlational evidence against customary spanking becomes trivial after adjusting for pre-existing child differences. Moreover, that trivial evidence can be either harmful or beneficial on average, depending upon the statistical method used to adjust for pre-existing differences. (2) The second recent publication shows that the evidence against customary spanking is identical to the apparent effects of most corrective actions when analyzed in the same way (e.g., longitudinal analyses controlling statistically for initial differences in the outcome). This is true whether the corrective actions are by parents (e.g., other disciplinary responses) or professionals (treatments for depression in women). The outline summarizes other meta-analyses ignored in scientific summaries used to oppose all spanking and evidence that back-up spanking and phased-out spanking result in better outcomes compared to never-spanked children.
I wonder if you could publish the opposite result without your career being corporally punished.
Probably depends on how you came to the opposite conclusion; if peer-reviewed research showed that outcome, it'd probably be a lot easier than if it was just "I turned out fine."
I've read comments that sound just like yours from consparicists any time another study disproves links between vaccines and autism. You might consider whether the reason the opposite view isn't well-regarded is because it's disproven.
You could wonder that, but if you're a proper skeptic you also have to wonder the opposite.
Vaccines and autism isn't a "moral" question, so it's not really comparable IMO.
I raised my child with a zero punishment policy.
No punishment, ever, of any sort.
Yeah I'm on a similar path myself. Instead of punishment, I connect with my kids first and then make them reflect on their behaviour and what impact it had.
It is very inefficient in the short term! It takes a lot of time and effort in the moment.
But now that mine are 10 and 12, parenting is not much work at all because they've developed skills over the long term that allows them to reflect on their behaviour. As parents we also model good apologies too.
I'm not ideologically opposed to punishment entirely, but it has never really had a place. The closest was when a child stayed out past their curfew and the natural consequence was that it showed they weren't ready for managing their time and we shortened their curfew.
But I do know other parents whose kids genuinely respond much better to very simple and firm commands. A lot of kids would just be confused and frustrated by our family's method of having to reflect on our behaviour verbally so often.
>> make them reflect on their behaviour and what impact it had.
I would not do that. I’d just assume that if they behave in unexpected ways then that means I failed to explain the expectations of myself/society.