Serious question that anyone familiar with the "Verwaltung" (Administration) here in Berlin should ask themselves. Because the fact is, it couldn't have been.
For one thing, how does one analysis and find vulnerabilities in a system? By doing pen-testing but is that legal here? Why didn't someone from the CCC[1] or BSI[2] actually do a pen-test and discover the vulnerability that was used?
Particularly the CCC who like to point fingers and complain about how bad security is. Why didn't they simply do a pen-test and tell the "Verwaltung" about what they found? Probably because they knew that the "Verwaltung" would proceed with legal fixes instead of system fixes, i.e., making hacking even more illegal than it already is.
Meanwhile all the Consultants that the city pays pretended everything was super secure because well ... well because it all Microsoft so it must be secure. We even have the licenses to prove it.
I think it has to do with the fact, that "white" hacking is illegal? I am sure people would like to help out and harden the systems.
But i am also not sure, what actually happened. Once ya in a system, all is lost.
And the culture around credentials is in my opinion a lost case anyways. I do not know where IT has gone a wrong path. Either security it is super high and you can not do anything (hello bureaucracy) or you can do more, but you become more vulnerable.
Allegedly hackers gained access to data about true DSL speeds in Berlin's households, waiting times for Anmeldung, and scandalous ratio of rental deposit returns from landlords. In short Berlin is cooked but it also always has been.
I live in Berlin. I am not in any way associated with the administration and whatever suppliers they work with. How do I deserve to potentially have my data leaked and why are you cheering for it?
Interesting how all those flagged comments contribute nothing (as does yours), are gleeful in an antisocial way about leaked data, and the accounts posting them are all less than a month old (including yours).
Who is being anti-social? Those that gleefully damning Berlin for its incompetence or those that caused the incompetence?
The politicians who go play tennis while Berlin burns?[0] Politics in Germany and Berlin specifically has been extremely anti-social. From referendums[1] that get ignored to a decades old housing problem from which investors are the only benefactors. To positive social movements such as "zu Verschenken"[2] that get banned[3] ... because well ... because you're not meant to share.
I think the anti-social label is well earned on both sides of the fence. Only the politicians are meant to serve those that voted for them, not serve themselves.
The irony is that SAP/Oracle/MS/BCG and co. will benefit from this because the city will now spend more money on consultants that were meant to prevent this. "Nice data you have there, shame if it leaked like last time. How about some more licenses or consultants?"
Everything you say is true but obviously I am talking about the people putting their Schadenfreude on display.
Do you think Berliners are happy that the referendums they voted for are getting ignored? The current mayors party has the lowest approval ratings ever. The current chancellor of the same party is the most hated in German history.
And then come some big-shots here talking about how it's well-deserved that a city of 4 million people got hacked and who knows what data leaked.
Perhaps german culture is to blame, one of "Schadenfreude" and of "Verbieten" and of "Authority knows best" and no one seriously challenging those in "Authority".
Germany is still a very much top-down society where people get talked down to and only those with the right connections (i.e. financial or educational or heritage) get taken seriously.
Spend time in any english speaking place and you still - might - notice a difference how the media interacts with those in power and more importantly, how the media interacts with their audience. German media very much talks down to its audience and up to those in power.
P.S. What I learnt today is that the head of the BSI is Claudia Plattner and the founder of SAP is Hasso Plattner - Coincidence? Relation? ~~What a surprise! Again is this a sign that security is taken seriously or that connections count?~~ No relation, mea culpa.
Again, I don't completely disagree with you but your comments are out of place when talking about damage done to innocent people, even if (or especially since) it was caused those corrupt people at the top.
And that's your opinion and that opinion counts in whose reality? Certainly not mine. I see neither facts nor references in what you say. So it's definitely a personal PoV that you take and you may do that. Just don't force it onto me.
I neither crow nor care what happens to thousands of people, why should I. I'm merely pointing out that politicians don't have an automatic right to be anti-social just because they have the power.
And if someone accuses someone else of being anti-social, then I would also like to point out that they aren't the only ones being anti-social. It's a philosophical point of view, not a nihilistic of one.
well, it would be foolish to think only reddit and other social media platforms are overrun with bots wanting to manipulate, shift sentiment and manufacture dissent.
That‘ll teach the bad guys! Pity about all those that will have their private data auctioned off.
I‘m sure that the good guys will catch the badies in the nick of time to prevent a data auction.
Just in time for a good game of tennis and a happy end. Thanks to Hollywood we have nothing to worry about.
I‘m glad _they_‘re not paying and really looking forward to having my private data turn up somewhere I never intended due to _their_ incompetence. I’m sure _they_ can’t help it because of course _they_ aren’t at fault - it was the badies.
Neither the media nor politicians are interested in hyping up the issue right before the state election on Sep 20. So it's probably just what you suggested: pretending that nothing happened.
Anecdotally from another EU country, the politicians simply insolently ignore the data leaks. Victims will be punished though with a wave of "beware of scammers" communication, increasingly invasive identification, and institutional erosion of their privacy.
How could this have been prevented?
Serious question that anyone familiar with the "Verwaltung" (Administration) here in Berlin should ask themselves. Because the fact is, it couldn't have been.
For one thing, how does one analysis and find vulnerabilities in a system? By doing pen-testing but is that legal here? Why didn't someone from the CCC[1] or BSI[2] actually do a pen-test and discover the vulnerability that was used?
Particularly the CCC who like to point fingers and complain about how bad security is. Why didn't they simply do a pen-test and tell the "Verwaltung" about what they found? Probably because they knew that the "Verwaltung" would proceed with legal fixes instead of system fixes, i.e., making hacking even more illegal than it already is.
Meanwhile all the Consultants that the city pays pretended everything was super secure because well ... well because it all Microsoft so it must be secure. We even have the licenses to prove it.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Office_for_Information...
I think it has to do with the fact, that "white" hacking is illegal? I am sure people would like to help out and harden the systems.
But i am also not sure, what actually happened. Once ya in a system, all is lost.
And the culture around credentials is in my opinion a lost case anyways. I do not know where IT has gone a wrong path. Either security it is super high and you can not do anything (hello bureaucracy) or you can do more, but you become more vulnerable.
Anyways. Data is the new Oil, government said.
Allegedly hackers gained access to data about true DSL speeds in Berlin's households, waiting times for Anmeldung, and scandalous ratio of rental deposit returns from landlords. In short Berlin is cooked but it also always has been.
[flagged]
I live in Berlin. I am not in any way associated with the administration and whatever suppliers they work with. How do I deserve to potentially have my data leaked and why are you cheering for it?
Interesting how all those flagged comments contribute nothing (as does yours), are gleeful in an antisocial way about leaked data, and the accounts posting them are all less than a month old (including yours).
Who is being anti-social? Those that gleefully damning Berlin for its incompetence or those that caused the incompetence?
The politicians who go play tennis while Berlin burns?[0] Politics in Germany and Berlin specifically has been extremely anti-social. From referendums[1] that get ignored to a decades old housing problem from which investors are the only benefactors. To positive social movements such as "zu Verschenken"[2] that get banned[3] ... because well ... because you're not meant to share.
I think the anti-social label is well earned on both sides of the fence. Only the politicians are meant to serve those that voted for them, not serve themselves.
The irony is that SAP/Oracle/MS/BCG and co. will benefit from this because the city will now spend more money on consultants that were meant to prevent this. "Nice data you have there, shame if it leaked like last time. How about some more licenses or consultants?"
[0] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/berlin-buergermeister-kai-we... (german)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Wohnen_%26_Co._enteig...
[2] https://www.lostinberlin.com/the-zu-verschenken-culture-in-b...
[3] https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2025/08/berlin-bussgel... (german)
Everything you say is true but obviously I am talking about the people putting their Schadenfreude on display.
Do you think Berliners are happy that the referendums they voted for are getting ignored? The current mayors party has the lowest approval ratings ever. The current chancellor of the same party is the most hated in German history.
And then come some big-shots here talking about how it's well-deserved that a city of 4 million people got hacked and who knows what data leaked.
Perhaps german culture is to blame, one of "Schadenfreude" and of "Verbieten" and of "Authority knows best" and no one seriously challenging those in "Authority".
Germany is still a very much top-down society where people get talked down to and only those with the right connections (i.e. financial or educational or heritage) get taken seriously.
Spend time in any english speaking place and you still - might - notice a difference how the media interacts with those in power and more importantly, how the media interacts with their audience. German media very much talks down to its audience and up to those in power.
P.S. What I learnt today is that the head of the BSI is Claudia Plattner and the founder of SAP is Hasso Plattner - Coincidence? Relation? ~~What a surprise! Again is this a sign that security is taken seriously or that connections count?~~ No relation, mea culpa.
Again, I don't completely disagree with you but your comments are out of place when talking about damage done to innocent people, even if (or especially since) it was caused those corrupt people at the top.
> Coincidence? Relation?
https://rp-online.de/politik/deutschland/claudia-plattner-di...
Berliners know how to create change, as seen by history. They're currently not. Can we infer they don't want change?
Because large heterogeneous groups of people can be simply put in a basket together.
These four stories are all incredibly tepid nothing anecdotes. Try any random city in the world
You are being aggressively antisocial and nihilistic and crowing over the misfortune befalling thousands.
And that's your opinion and that opinion counts in whose reality? Certainly not mine. I see neither facts nor references in what you say. So it's definitely a personal PoV that you take and you may do that. Just don't force it onto me.
I neither crow nor care what happens to thousands of people, why should I. I'm merely pointing out that politicians don't have an automatic right to be anti-social just because they have the power.
And if someone accuses someone else of being anti-social, then I would also like to point out that they aren't the only ones being anti-social. It's a philosophical point of view, not a nihilistic of one.
so first you ask
> Who is being anti-social?
then you continue:
> I neither crow nor care what happens to thousands of people, why should I.
well, it would be foolish to think only reddit and other social media platforms are overrun with bots wanting to manipulate, shift sentiment and manufacture dissent.
it would also be foolish to think the sets "humans" and "those who write germany is a backwards country" never overlap.
(I've used "write" to account for bots in the latter set too).
Isn't 2 million euros a bit of a lowball demand for a city the size of Berlin? In any case, it's good they're not paying.
That‘ll teach the bad guys! Pity about all those that will have their private data auctioned off.
I‘m sure that the good guys will catch the badies in the nick of time to prevent a data auction.
Just in time for a good game of tennis and a happy end. Thanks to Hollywood we have nothing to worry about.
I‘m glad _they_‘re not paying and really looking forward to having my private data turn up somewhere I never intended due to _their_ incompetence. I’m sure _they_ can’t help it because of course _they_ aren’t at fault - it was the badies.
I'd rather they not pay and my data gets leaked along with everybody else's, than for them to pay and give incentives for future blackmail.
[flagged]
Not like Berlin could have paid anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqb6qYBdvX8
There’s no information of what was leaked besides ~5TB of data? And since they don’t intend to pay then they’ll just pretend nothing happened?
Neither the media nor politicians are interested in hyping up the issue right before the state election on Sep 20. So it's probably just what you suggested: pretending that nothing happened.
Anecdotally from another EU country, the politicians simply insolently ignore the data leaks. Victims will be punished though with a wave of "beware of scammers" communication, increasingly invasive identification, and institutional erosion of their privacy.
And because it's a government, it doesn't have to comply with any of the data breach laws.
literally not how it works.
"Two of the worst people you know are fighting."
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