It surprises me how the US loves their top-loading washers. Here in the UK, there isn't the complex (though interesting) "transmission": the drum has fins to act as both agitator and spin-dryer. This means it's just a boring belt drive between motor and drum (or direct drive, for newer machines.)
One advantage of top loaders is that they don't have handedness. So wall and door and air vent and water tap location don't fight against appliance door swing...also the distance between door jambs can be a meaningful number of inches narrower.
This will be more of a factor to any degree that US appliances tend to be larger than their European counter-parts (and my WAG is that's the case). In part because in the US, front loaders are a more premium product.
[edit: side note -- issues with fitment are a substantial problem for retailers, returns are expensive].
Mainly it's just everybody grew up using top-loaders, though it's also easier to get clothes in and out of a top-loader than a front (unless you have a huge machine). [edit]Oh, and also the up-front cost of a top-loader was about $100 less when I last bought a machine.
I've used a front-loader now for years and the only thing I really miss from my top-loader is that I could just leave the lid open for it to dry out. The door of the front-loader is perennially in the way if you leave it wide open, so we have to prop it open to prevent mildew.
I once had top-loader in the bathroom of an apartment that I lived in by myself.
Leaving the lid wide open was a pretty great way of living life. I'd shed my clothes to take a shower and just toss them directly into the washing machine. When it came time to start a load it was a simple matter to put some soap in and push start.
I dunno why anyone would want a front loader. If the seal fails, you have water on your floor. If the machine fails during the wash cycle, again, no way to easily get your clothes out without getting water on the floor. If a top loader fails, neither of these things can happen.
Got a new LG washer, but some clothing item with a metal button got stuck between the seal and tore a bit of it off, causing leaks. A new seal from LG isn't too expensive, about ~$70, however, it requires the entire front and top of the machine to be removed, so it's not a cheap operation (When hiring someone to fix it).
I don't think I'd ever pick a top loader still, but front loading machines do seem to fail in more annoying ways.
Given the choice between a front loader or top loader without an agitator, the front loader wins easily. They use less water and do a much better job cleaning.
I will note that the locking mechanism on my LG is quite strong. I tried to get past the safety lock (for high-temp washes) but couldn't get in. And in the case of catastrophic failure, you'll have much less water (and weight) to deal with vs the top load.
I think the idea is that most people have more space vertically than horizontally and like to stack appliances, e.g. washer on the bottom, dryer on top
In other words, they're so gentle they barely clean lightly-soiled clothes, and that's why they also use much less water; forget about heavy soiling or thicker textiles. For true cleaning, you need a top-loader that submerges them in detergent water and actually forces it through the materials with an agitator.
Seals rarely fail, this is not a realistic problem. The water level during wash is mostly lower than the seal, only during rinse cycles does it reach above the seal. If the machine fails for some reason during a cycle it can be drained through a drain hose which uses nothing more than gravity.
Front loaders use less water and with that less energy (which mostly goes into heating water), are less likely to tear clothes, have higher spin cycle speeds (1400 to 1600 rpm vs. 600-800 for top loaders) and can be (and often are) stacked.
Why would anyone want a top loader? What is the advantage other than the supposedly greater ease of loading which is negated by putting the front loader on a pedestal? I see no advantages, only disadvantages. It is not as if we never had the choice between these types as I remember them from the laundromat some 55 years ago. They were phased out, most likely for the reasons stated above.
One thing I love about top-loaders is that if you’ve found a piece of laundry you forgot, you can just throw it in mid-cycle. Not necessarily ideal but hey.
The older ones usually make you wait for a minute or two before the door is unlocked. I have one in my current apartment that doesn’t do that, but I’ve tried it a couple times and it does spill some water when you open it.
With top-loaders, you don’t even have to pause, the lid is always open; and the water stays inside, obviously.
With both my 2006 Whirlpool front loader (trash) and 2022 LG front loader (excellent), the duration from when you press the "pause" button to when the agitator stops and the door unlocks is approximately one second. No water is spilled.
How do you do that without the water spilling out? Or do you mean waiting for it to drain, opening it, and then refilling (along with more detergent, having wasted the previous dose)?
The water level in a front loading washing machine is lower than the door seal. The seal only contains splashing water from the agitation. You hit the "pause" button, it stops agitating and unlocks the door, you throw your skidmarks in the washer, you close the door and press "start".
Since gravity continues to act in a downward direction, yes, the water stays pooled at the bottom of the drum and does not teleport upwards and outwards.
It works well but takes up more space because you can't stack washer/dryer, in Europe apartments and houses are a bit smaller so if you can save a square meter then that's good.
An apartment I’ve rented in Vietnam had a top-loader with a drying program. I think it put a stream of (cold) air through the clothes while spinning somehow, and IIRC the clothes were not completely dry at the end, but definitely closer than just after a spin. (I think if they’ve added a dehumidifier to the process it would work just as well as a standalone dryer!)
A big issue with side-load machines is the buildup of mould over time unless you are meticulous with maintenance.
I’ve adapted over the last decade l-and-a-half and learned to keep the door open, but the unease is everpresent that a cat might decide to nap in the washing machine on a particular day…
I wish these machines would just stay slightly open when off. I leave mine open when it's not in use and haven't had an issue. If it makes you feel any better, our cats have never gone inside the washer. They're much more interested in sneaking behind the machine.
I will note that when I forget and leave clothes after a wash for more than a day, they do get a slight mildew smell. The same thing happens with the top loader at my in-laws. Another wash gets rid of it in both cases.
I suspect it's due to the amount of water they use (or lack thereof) which leaves a lot more residue along the drain path, along with the horizontal drum that tends to trap rising water vapour attempting to escape. Leaving the lid on a top-loader open after use is natural; the water evaporates upwards, and they use enough water to wash themselves clean too (at least the older models do.)
Front loaders also get moldy and stink because they have to be sealed up so tightly. If you're not there to immediately pull out the clothes after the cycle, you're screwed. And in a small laundry room there isn't always room to let the door stay open to dry out the inside.
In my experience with front-loaders, all of these are non-problems.
But my understanding is that top-loaders are always inefficient: they have to use a lot more water, because the clothes have to be submerged, and thus they also have to use a lot more energy to heat it.
They use more water because they do a much better job at cleaning than side-loaders, especially the new "high efficiency" ones that seem to barely work. Just look at all the complaints online.
and thus they also have to use a lot more energy to heat it.
They're cheap, effective, reliable, very easy to service[1], and parts are also readily available. I'd only choose a side-loader if I was extremely squeezed for space and water.
[1] There are multiple YouTube videos of these machines being completely disassembled very quickly, as well as repairs.
I can agree: my parents bought a top loader and dryer in 1975 ('Made in Newton Iowa") which was used a few times a week for 30 years and now once a week for the last 21, as far as I know without repair. Now held by a family member they still look like the day they were delivered due to the porcelain enamel used instead of the painted metal that disintegrated on my second front loader. I've managed to repair my 3 front loaders through an average of about 8yrs each, so far.
I've joked with my wife that if I see that washer by the side of the road I'll carry it home on my back.
The primary failure I've observed in washing machines that get a lot of use is the drain pumps which are probably similarly (un)reliable across designs (we only have front loaders so not sure).
Part-time appliance fixer-upper here. I've done a few brands.
One thing with the newer models, especially Samsungs and the like, is they started using potting compounds to cover their circuit boards (within the plastic casing!), making simple fixes like replacing a voltage regulator or a capacitor essentially impossible. Yes, you can dig through the thing, but you're likely to slice through a trace if you don't slice your hand first. I unfortunately have a stack of these and I don't know what to do with them. [1]
Slightly older models, mid to late 2010s and earlier, are often easier to deal with because their circuitry is based more on simple analog controls for which a replacement part is not only widely available, but is cheap and can sometimes be improvised if needed, than on digital boards. I'm thinking of fridges which use a rheostat for the thermostat control. If one was so inclined and could absolutely not find a replacement, a bespoke set of resistors with a clip to choose termination point could be used instead.
If someone does want to get into this sort of thing, get something that already has a service manual + plenty of youtube videos. "Spare Parts" companies have tons of videos on how to do things, but they usually stop at probing and debugging circuit boards. You have service manuals that -do- contain, on the rare occasion, the schematics. But it's best to go with appliances that have incredibly simple, analog and discrete component systems rather than a plethora of digital ICs and processors.
As this blog post plainly mentions, the parts themselves often cost more than the appliance is worth. I have a box full of carbon brushes and ball bearings when I need to pull out a washer machine motor. A new motor is the cost of the machine, whereas the brushes, even if they are not OEM, work just fine for a few dollars and let the machine work for another one to two years under heavy daily use.
[1] Highly unlikely here, maybe in China, there could develop a second-hand black market where de-potted control boards are highly sought after due to their repairability, but it's a cyberpunk kind of dream at this point.
I have fixed a couple of washing machines and other appliances over the years. It's satisfying although likely not money-saving unless you don't put a value on your time. But I like working on mechanical things so it's closer to a hobby for me.
> It's satisfying although likely not money-saving unless you don't put a value on your time.
Being able to repair my Sears Kenmore 80 Series washing machine from the late 90s has definitely saved me money. I've made exactly two repairs in the last 15 years, each costing me less than $50 dollars in parts, neither taking more than two hours to complete, and both saving me from having to buy a new machine. If that's not money-saving, then I don't know what is!
Just wanted to chime in and inform you that Kenmore isn't a Kenmore, they never made anything just bought them and slapped a label on them. The first 3 digits denotes the manufacturer. I.E. 110 is Whirlpool, there are lists online to reference.
I've repaired all kinds of stuff in my house, including appliances. Calling someone to fix something could cost me more time than fixing it myself. Also, I can time-shift when I do it myself, for instance working during hours when I'm unlikely to get paid to do something.
An example is bike repair. If something breaks, getting it fixed would mean driving it to the shop and back again. Doing it on my own terms and schedule, I can fix it at night, often in a few minutes. If it needs a part, I ride a spare bike until the part arrives.
I decide on a case by case basis. I don't change the oil in my car because I can drop it off on my way to work, and in that case, I am getting paid while the car is being serviced. Also, some kinds of work involve more tools and space than I want to own. And mess.
The home furnace, in the middle of winter while my elderly parents are vising... yeah call the guy.
Laundry repair costs a lot around here. Repair people certainly put a value on their time. It does take a while to get the machines apart and back together, but if you have a good idea of the part that needs replacing, it's not too bad to do many things.
Repair service will replace the subassembly that has failed. In TFA that would be the entire transmission. Very few would disassemble it further to replace only the actual failed part. And if they would, that's hours more labor.
So you're paying for a new transmission, plus labor and service call fee. This easily could exceed the value of the washer, and certainly would have many people thinking "Eh, it's 15 years old, I'll just replace the whole washer."
I got a 503; maybe hugged to death?
https://web.archive.org/web/20260117044133/https://k0lee.com...
It surprises me how the US loves their top-loading washers. Here in the UK, there isn't the complex (though interesting) "transmission": the drum has fins to act as both agitator and spin-dryer. This means it's just a boring belt drive between motor and drum (or direct drive, for newer machines.)
We have those types here in the States, too. They're very common. We even have several different domestic manufacturers of them to pick from.
(As an aside: I don't throw rocks at your house.)
One advantage of top loaders is that they don't have handedness. So wall and door and air vent and water tap location don't fight against appliance door swing...also the distance between door jambs can be a meaningful number of inches narrower.
This will be more of a factor to any degree that US appliances tend to be larger than their European counter-parts (and my WAG is that's the case). In part because in the US, front loaders are a more premium product.
[edit: side note -- issues with fitment are a substantial problem for retailers, returns are expensive].
Mainly it's just everybody grew up using top-loaders, though it's also easier to get clothes in and out of a top-loader than a front (unless you have a huge machine). [edit]Oh, and also the up-front cost of a top-loader was about $100 less when I last bought a machine.
I've used a front-loader now for years and the only thing I really miss from my top-loader is that I could just leave the lid open for it to dry out. The door of the front-loader is perennially in the way if you leave it wide open, so we have to prop it open to prevent mildew.
I once had top-loader in the bathroom of an apartment that I lived in by myself.
Leaving the lid wide open was a pretty great way of living life. I'd shed my clothes to take a shower and just toss them directly into the washing machine. When it came time to start a load it was a simple matter to put some soap in and push start.
I dunno why anyone would want a front loader. If the seal fails, you have water on your floor. If the machine fails during the wash cycle, again, no way to easily get your clothes out without getting water on the floor. If a top loader fails, neither of these things can happen.
I’m not sure you can even buy top loaders in the uk.
Front loaders can go into kitchens which is usually where washing machine is located. They can be ‘built into’ cupboards etc.
Mines in my garage and I have a separate drier which sits on top of the washing machine..
So it’s probably largely space and location concerns.
Got a new LG washer, but some clothing item with a metal button got stuck between the seal and tore a bit of it off, causing leaks. A new seal from LG isn't too expensive, about ~$70, however, it requires the entire front and top of the machine to be removed, so it's not a cheap operation (When hiring someone to fix it).
I don't think I'd ever pick a top loader still, but front loading machines do seem to fail in more annoying ways.
Given the choice between a front loader or top loader without an agitator, the front loader wins easily. They use less water and do a much better job cleaning.
I will note that the locking mechanism on my LG is quite strong. I tried to get past the safety lock (for high-temp washes) but couldn't get in. And in the case of catastrophic failure, you'll have much less water (and weight) to deal with vs the top load.
I think the idea is that most people have more space vertically than horizontally and like to stack appliances, e.g. washer on the bottom, dryer on top
Front loaders clean better, with less wear and tear on your clothes, using less water.
clean better
No
with less wear and tear on your clothes
Yes, but then they're still dirtier.
using less water
Yes
In other words, they're so gentle they barely clean lightly-soiled clothes, and that's why they also use much less water; forget about heavy soiling or thicker textiles. For true cleaning, you need a top-loader that submerges them in detergent water and actually forces it through the materials with an agitator.
Seals rarely fail, this is not a realistic problem. The water level during wash is mostly lower than the seal, only during rinse cycles does it reach above the seal. If the machine fails for some reason during a cycle it can be drained through a drain hose which uses nothing more than gravity.
Front loaders use less water and with that less energy (which mostly goes into heating water), are less likely to tear clothes, have higher spin cycle speeds (1400 to 1600 rpm vs. 600-800 for top loaders) and can be (and often are) stacked.
Why would anyone want a top loader? What is the advantage other than the supposedly greater ease of loading which is negated by putting the front loader on a pedestal? I see no advantages, only disadvantages. It is not as if we never had the choice between these types as I remember them from the laundromat some 55 years ago. They were phased out, most likely for the reasons stated above.
One thing I love about top-loaders is that if you’ve found a piece of laundry you forgot, you can just throw it in mid-cycle. Not necessarily ideal but hey.
Every side-loader I've ever owned also has this ability.
The older ones usually make you wait for a minute or two before the door is unlocked. I have one in my current apartment that doesn’t do that, but I’ve tried it a couple times and it does spill some water when you open it.
With top-loaders, you don’t even have to pause, the lid is always open; and the water stays inside, obviously.
With both my 2006 Whirlpool front loader (trash) and 2022 LG front loader (excellent), the duration from when you press the "pause" button to when the agitator stops and the door unlocks is approximately one second. No water is spilled.
Noted, thanks!
How do you do that without the water spilling out? Or do you mean waiting for it to drain, opening it, and then refilling (along with more detergent, having wasted the previous dose)?
The water level in a front loading washing machine is lower than the door seal. The seal only contains splashing water from the agitation. You hit the "pause" button, it stops agitating and unlocks the door, you throw your skidmarks in the washer, you close the door and press "start".
Does the water know to stay inside the drum when you open the door?
The drum stops rotating while cycled is paused
Since gravity continues to act in a downward direction, yes, the water stays pooled at the bottom of the drum and does not teleport upwards and outwards.
It works well but takes up more space because you can't stack washer/dryer, in Europe apartments and houses are a bit smaller so if you can save a square meter then that's good.
Stacked combo units with a top-load washer on the bottom definitely exist[1].
Whirlpool makes them by combining washer assemblies from Clyde, Ohio and dryer assemblers from Marion, Ohio.
(It's not necessarily the most convenient way to do things, but it is also not a fiction.)
[1]: https://www.whirlpool.com/laundry/laundry-sets/stacked-laund... [scroll down]
An apartment I’ve rented in Vietnam had a top-loader with a drying program. I think it put a stream of (cold) air through the clothes while spinning somehow, and IIRC the clothes were not completely dry at the end, but definitely closer than just after a spin. (I think if they’ve added a dehumidifier to the process it would work just as well as a standalone dryer!)
Makes sense in Vietnam's climate.
A big issue with side-load machines is the buildup of mould over time unless you are meticulous with maintenance.
I’ve adapted over the last decade l-and-a-half and learned to keep the door open, but the unease is everpresent that a cat might decide to nap in the washing machine on a particular day…
I wish these machines would just stay slightly open when off. I leave mine open when it's not in use and haven't had an issue. If it makes you feel any better, our cats have never gone inside the washer. They're much more interested in sneaking behind the machine.
I will note that when I forget and leave clothes after a wash for more than a day, they do get a slight mildew smell. The same thing happens with the top loader at my in-laws. Another wash gets rid of it in both cases.
I suspect it's due to the amount of water they use (or lack thereof) which leaves a lot more residue along the drain path, along with the horizontal drum that tends to trap rising water vapour attempting to escape. Leaving the lid on a top-loader open after use is natural; the water evaporates upwards, and they use enough water to wash themselves clean too (at least the older models do.)
Top loaders are higher capacity and cost less. And open air drying is preferable to machine drying.
Top loaders also act as spin dryers...
Front loaders also get moldy and stink because they have to be sealed up so tightly. If you're not there to immediately pull out the clothes after the cycle, you're screwed. And in a small laundry room there isn't always room to let the door stay open to dry out the inside.
In my experience with front-loaders, all of these are non-problems.
But my understanding is that top-loaders are always inefficient: they have to use a lot more water, because the clothes have to be submerged, and thus they also have to use a lot more energy to heat it.
They use more water because they do a much better job at cleaning than side-loaders, especially the new "high efficiency" ones that seem to barely work. Just look at all the complaints online.
and thus they also have to use a lot more energy to heat it.
Most if not all top-loaders don't heat the water.
They're cheap, effective, reliable, very easy to service[1], and parts are also readily available. I'd only choose a side-loader if I was extremely squeezed for space and water.
[1] There are multiple YouTube videos of these machines being completely disassembled very quickly, as well as repairs.
It's my understanding that top loaders are less prone to breakdowns.
I can agree: my parents bought a top loader and dryer in 1975 ('Made in Newton Iowa") which was used a few times a week for 30 years and now once a week for the last 21, as far as I know without repair. Now held by a family member they still look like the day they were delivered due to the porcelain enamel used instead of the painted metal that disintegrated on my second front loader. I've managed to repair my 3 front loaders through an average of about 8yrs each, so far. I've joked with my wife that if I see that washer by the side of the road I'll carry it home on my back.
The primary failure I've observed in washing machines that get a lot of use is the drain pumps which are probably similarly (un)reliable across designs (we only have front loaders so not sure).
Clutches can wear out too, everything will still work but the washer won't really agitate well.
and leaks, since there's no door seals to wear out
Part-time appliance fixer-upper here. I've done a few brands.
One thing with the newer models, especially Samsungs and the like, is they started using potting compounds to cover their circuit boards (within the plastic casing!), making simple fixes like replacing a voltage regulator or a capacitor essentially impossible. Yes, you can dig through the thing, but you're likely to slice through a trace if you don't slice your hand first. I unfortunately have a stack of these and I don't know what to do with them. [1]
Slightly older models, mid to late 2010s and earlier, are often easier to deal with because their circuitry is based more on simple analog controls for which a replacement part is not only widely available, but is cheap and can sometimes be improvised if needed, than on digital boards. I'm thinking of fridges which use a rheostat for the thermostat control. If one was so inclined and could absolutely not find a replacement, a bespoke set of resistors with a clip to choose termination point could be used instead.
If someone does want to get into this sort of thing, get something that already has a service manual + plenty of youtube videos. "Spare Parts" companies have tons of videos on how to do things, but they usually stop at probing and debugging circuit boards. You have service manuals that -do- contain, on the rare occasion, the schematics. But it's best to go with appliances that have incredibly simple, analog and discrete component systems rather than a plethora of digital ICs and processors.
As this blog post plainly mentions, the parts themselves often cost more than the appliance is worth. I have a box full of carbon brushes and ball bearings when I need to pull out a washer machine motor. A new motor is the cost of the machine, whereas the brushes, even if they are not OEM, work just fine for a few dollars and let the machine work for another one to two years under heavy daily use.
[1] Highly unlikely here, maybe in China, there could develop a second-hand black market where de-potted control boards are highly sought after due to their repairability, but it's a cyberpunk kind of dream at this point.
I have fixed a couple of washing machines and other appliances over the years. It's satisfying although likely not money-saving unless you don't put a value on your time. But I like working on mechanical things so it's closer to a hobby for me.
> It's satisfying although likely not money-saving unless you don't put a value on your time.
Being able to repair my Sears Kenmore 80 Series washing machine from the late 90s has definitely saved me money. I've made exactly two repairs in the last 15 years, each costing me less than $50 dollars in parts, neither taking more than two hours to complete, and both saving me from having to buy a new machine. If that's not money-saving, then I don't know what is!
Just wanted to chime in and inform you that Kenmore isn't a Kenmore, they never made anything just bought them and slapped a label on them. The first 3 digits denotes the manufacturer. I.E. 110 is Whirlpool, there are lists online to reference.
I've repaired all kinds of stuff in my house, including appliances. Calling someone to fix something could cost me more time than fixing it myself. Also, I can time-shift when I do it myself, for instance working during hours when I'm unlikely to get paid to do something.
An example is bike repair. If something breaks, getting it fixed would mean driving it to the shop and back again. Doing it on my own terms and schedule, I can fix it at night, often in a few minutes. If it needs a part, I ride a spare bike until the part arrives.
I decide on a case by case basis. I don't change the oil in my car because I can drop it off on my way to work, and in that case, I am getting paid while the car is being serviced. Also, some kinds of work involve more tools and space than I want to own. And mess.
The home furnace, in the middle of winter while my elderly parents are vising... yeah call the guy.
Laundry repair costs a lot around here. Repair people certainly put a value on their time. It does take a while to get the machines apart and back together, but if you have a good idea of the part that needs replacing, it's not too bad to do many things.
Repair service will replace the subassembly that has failed. In TFA that would be the entire transmission. Very few would disassemble it further to replace only the actual failed part. And if they would, that's hours more labor.
So you're paying for a new transmission, plus labor and service call fee. This easily could exceed the value of the washer, and certainly would have many people thinking "Eh, it's 15 years old, I'll just replace the whole washer."
Have people discovered putting the washing machine into the walk-in closet where your clothes actually live as a life hack yet?
Only works if your walk-in closet has hot and cold water taps, as well as a drain.