Japanese people still aren't having sex. And nobody knows why

(sciencefocus.com)

33 points | by baranul 4 hours ago ago

95 comments

  • mhitza 3 hours ago ago

    The potential speculations already listed in the article sound like enough reasons.

    How about you corelate this with cost of living, financial independece, and decreasing socialisation? We are seeing similar trends in european countries.

    When my generation was growing up, and reaching adulthood, in the late 90s early 2000s while our own teens didn't have places where to get intimate, outdoor sex was way more common than it is today!

    Who in their right mind would do so today when you can't even pick your nose without being caught by some random outside camera or mobile phone.

    Maybe think radically and enforce the opposit of curfews whereas old parents living with their young adults are forced to hang outside at bars/clubs from 10pm to 9am to give their youth some breathing room :))

    • cowlevel 3 hours ago ago

      Maybe make it illegal to publish a video of someone without their consent.

      • mhitza 2 hours ago ago

        That doesn't work, at the very least, for two simple reasons.

        First that you can't attest who filmed something without a lot of effort that law enforcement for sure won't bother with.

        In many countries caught doing such activities in public spaces falls under public indecent exposure, if not something more draconian that puts you on a sex offender list. Morally people will feel obliged to report it there.

        • cowlevel 2 hours ago ago

          Can't attest who murdered someone or stole something or drew graffiti either, but making it illegal makes it happen a lot less, because of the chance that someone actually can attest it.

          For example if you post it to Instagram or YouTube they'd know it was you, and you could go to jail.

          • karmakurtisaani 27 minutes ago ago

            So you go have a shag in an alley and I'll stumble upon you and your partner with my camera. How will you know I published it and where? Maybe I'll just upload it to some seedy website that you never visit.

      • api 2 hours ago ago

        Or a civil liability for you and/or the platform. That and taxing advertising and heavily taxing anything that looks like gambling (very short term speculation) would solve a lot of problems.

      • mrits 2 hours ago ago

        That will stop it surely

      • boxed 2 hours ago ago

        People steal, assault and even murder people and film themselves doing it and publish it on the internet.

        • cowlevel 2 hours ago ago

          And it's always very useful in their own prosecution.

          • boxed an hour ago ago

            But the point is that that's AFTER the crime, so doesn't stop it.

    • api 2 hours ago ago

      “Planet Japan” is where we are headed it seems. Japan got there first.

      All these trends are happening everywhere to varying degrees with less developed places like much of Africa simply earlier on the curve but following the same trajectory.

      So where does it end? I’m skeptical of population doomerism but shrinking population, like too rapid population growth, creates economic and social problems.

      On the other hand if we are about to automate tons of stuff it means we need less humans to run things, and if medicine keeps getting better longer life and health spans somewhat offset lower birth rates.

      • karmakurtisaani 24 minutes ago ago

        One danger of aging population that doesn't get acknowledged often is that as the population ages, so does their voting and investment behavior.

        Older people take less risks and it will reflect in funding available to innovation. Of course it will fall on the younger generation to support the older, but they will have less and less say in what goes on, and will have less opportunities to prove themselves.

        There is no way this will end well.

    • watwut 2 hours ago ago

      > while our own teens didn't have places where to get intimate, outdoor sex was way more common than it is today!

      I just dont think teen outdoor sex is the thing that should come back.

  • NalNezumi 10 minutes ago ago

    Generally, I wouldn't take any of these stats seriously... I've seen many stats like these and when you dig down it's basically some magazine (life, romance, fashion etc) just asking their readers or at best some weird form of consensus. From my experience, bragging about sex have never really been a social norm in Japan so you don't have that effect we see in the west when both virgins and fuck boys brag about their intercouse history.

    That said, one thing I never see in those surveys, that seems so obvious to me after living there, is just the small living space and relatively thin walls.

    You'll start to get very conscious of sound (moaning, bed/floor making sound) of you/your partner when you can hear kids from the street loud and clear. I mean love hotel is commonly used for young couples too, even if you have your own bed at home. If you have kid in the house, I can imagine you'll get a bit hesitant on doing it for the risk of them hearing.

    Young people in Japan mostly live in the cities, and often in apartments (small space, high density) so they get extra affected by this.

    The other effect is that there's just so much things to do there. East Asia is heaven for hedonistic diversity, and in that environment, sexual pleasure have a lot of competition

  • expedited123 13 minutes ago ago

    "Around 1 in 10 Japanese people reach their 30s without ever having had sex"

    I actually assumed it's way more. Interesting.

  • pluc 4 hours ago ago

    I too would be confused with blurry genitals

    • Findecanor an hour ago ago

      Uncensored Japanese Adult Video is also apparently quite common these days, despite being illegal.

    • zombocomvibes 3 hours ago ago

      Maybe the moire effect is a Pavlovian turn-on for them?

  • anthonj 3 hours ago ago

    They mention social issues such as bad work culture and other stuff, but I will copy paste this part that looks new/surprising to me:

    """Among their findings were the rise of sexlessness within marriage, and the popularity of pornography and the services of sex workers, especially among men.

    For instance, in some surveys from 2008 to 2024, up to 60 per cent of Japanese men said they had previously paid for sex."""

    • bryanlarsen an hour ago ago

      60% is a lower figure than I would have expected. Prostitution has always been part of Japanese culture (though not as much as the Western view of the geisha would imply). And given the proclivity of young men to "try everything at least once", I imagine it's something many young men have tried. More interesting would be the percentage of people who pay for it regularly. Does a person that tried it once but hasn't done so for years really count?

    • LaurensBER 3 hours ago ago

      So it might be a supply side and not a demand side issue?

      • Haven880 3 hours ago ago

        Meaning there are Japanese women there doing hundreds of thousands of sex. That would explain the average women not doing much. Dont trust too much this kind of stats.

        • karmakurtisaani 23 minutes ago ago

          Well, you know, there are the ladies of the evening..

      • anthonj 3 hours ago ago

        Honestly the whole article sounds like they are getting fucked by their own weird social protocols and standards (that harms both man and women). So people find escapism in these kind of behaviours.

    • throwthrowuknow 2 hours ago ago

      That’s nothing new and very unlikely to be the cause. Pornography maybe but that’s also not new, just more abundant.

      • apopapo 2 hours ago ago

        Pornography is illegal in China and Korea, yet their populations are in decline, too.

      • pvab3 2 hours ago ago

        being able to watch millions of hours of videos in your own home on demand is very new

        • ButlerianJihad 2 hours ago ago

          Certainly, especially since you’d need to be 114 years old, without ever sleeping at all, to watch 1,000,000 hours of anything!

          Impressive!

  • iSnow 3 hours ago ago

    >In Japan, around 30 per cent of men and 15 per cent of women work for more than 50 hours per week.

    That doesn't make a lot of sense. 50hr/w was the norm in many countries till the 1960's or so, and yet people were having lots of babies indicating having marriages with sex.

    • marginalia_nu 2 hours ago ago

      Just comparing hours hides the reality of what the time outside those hours looks like. When 50h weeks were the norm, you generally had a stay-at-home wife making that whole equation possible.

      For some reason when we started sending women out to work, the work they had been doing at home stopped being counted as work. But of course it is work, it still needs to be done. As a result, the modern 50h weeks can be anything between 60-80h weeks depending on your comfort with living in squalor, and the presence of children, it's just we for some reason only count the part you get paid for.

      • heisenbit 2 hours ago ago

        And compound matters income of men entered a long plateau or decline while women‘s preference for better earning partners persisted.

    • M95D an hour ago ago

      No contraception before the '60. A couple could have sex once a year and still produce lots of babies.

    • tcfhgj 2 hours ago ago

      how much did women work back then, work that is counted as work - and it is represented in "50hr/w was the norm"?

  • freetime2 3 hours ago ago

    In my city the birth rate has declined by 50% in just the last decade or so. It doesn't feel like it most days, because they are regularly building new housing developments near the city center. But when you get out into the more rural areas, you can really feel it.

    • undefined 41 minutes ago ago
      [deleted]
    • znpy 2 hours ago ago

      > But when you get out into the more rural areas, you can really feel it.

      yup.

      the rural town i'm originally from is down from ~9500 residents to a bit more than 6000 (and trending down).

  • novaRom 3 hours ago ago

    Why? The answer is directly in this article, : "for women particularly, the idea of marriage might not seem so appealing, in a culture where they were expected to bear most of the responsibility for household chores"

    Btw, is it good or bad for individuals and for society?

  • nickdothutton 3 hours ago ago

    In captivity, you have to subject mammals to extreme stress or hardship to prevent them from breeding.

    • marginalia_nu 3 hours ago ago

      There are many cases mammal species that almost never breed in captivity. Giant Pandas and Elephants are perhaps the more well known ones.

      • forinti 2 hours ago ago

        This reminds me of an article I once read about Pandas. A certain zoo couldn't get them to breed, so they made a Panda porno film and, I kid you not, this gave the bears ideas and they had sex.

  • hd4 2 hours ago ago

    " A 2020 online survey indicated that 20–30 per cent of men aged between 20 and 39 years said they didn't want to have sex"

    did anyone think to ask them why they didn't want to?

    • M95D an hour ago ago

      I'm not sure the responses could be trusted.

    • fgdfvbfdv 2 hours ago ago

      [dead]

  • 10xDev 4 hours ago ago

    Today in the news: Japanese men are not having sex, porn is banned in the UK and dating apps are dying.

    This isn't good if you don't want men becoming increasingly conservative, which is already well underway.

    • ben_w 4 hours ago ago

      > porn is banned in the UK

      As usual, games of telephone change things pretty radically:

        Porn showing choking or incest
      
      - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50115936
      • gib444 3 hours ago ago

        Online porn is banned if you don't upload your ID / use a VPN

        And a hilarious titbit: cousin incest porn is banned, but in real life, it's not :)

        • ndsipa_pomu an hour ago ago

          > Online porn is banned if you don't upload your ID / use a VPN

          No, some online porn is unavailable if you don't use a VPN or send personal details to some dodgy "age verification" site, but lesser known porn websites are still accessible.

        • ben_w 2 hours ago ago

          > Online porn is banned if you don't upload your ID / use a VPN

          That's not what a "ban" is.

          If it was, I could say "driving cars is banned in the UK if you don't show the insurance company your licence".

          > And a hilarious titbit: cousin incest porn is banned, but in real life, it's not :)

          At the turn of the century, as a 16 year old myself back then, I noted the same about the UK age of consent being 2 years lower than the age at which you were allowed to watch recordings or be in recordings oneself.

      • 10xDev 3 hours ago ago

        You know people are allowed to use hyperbole? I would be surprised if someone took banning porn literally.

        • ishouldnotbutk8 3 hours ago ago

          People are allowed to use hyperbole, but you said "porn is banned in the UK" in the middle of a list of actually mostly factual things. Feel free to be surprised, I briefly wondered what's going on in there.

          • 10xDev 3 hours ago ago

            The whole list is hyperbole. Hinge is growing, Tinder and Bumble along with most other apps are dying and obviously this is not representative of every Japanese man.

            I'm making a point about current general trends and their potential consequences, not listing facts.

    • bryanlarsen 2 hours ago ago

      Young men becoming increasingly conservative exasperates the issue. Women are opting out largely because of the traditional expectation that they do everything in a household.

      This male/female divide is becoming huge in Korea, if I've heard correctly.

      • rayiner 2 hours ago ago

        Note that in most places besides Korea, the male/female political divide is driven more by unmarried women becoming more liberal.

        • bryanlarsen 2 hours ago ago

          But is that a positive move to liberalism or a negative move away from conservatism? Is it cause or effect? The implication is that Liberalism is convincing women not to have children, but I believe that a large part of it is the other way around. Something else is convincing women not to have children, so they're embracing Liberalism because of that.

          • rayiner an hour ago ago

            I’m not implying anything. I’m just talking about trends in affiliation over time. E.g.: https://www.americansurveycenter.org/significant-figures/the....

          • Brian_K_White 38 minutes ago ago

            This is the kind of question that should be hounded all the way down.

            But it will take forever and whole generations will live and die before it does, because no one wants to.

            Most people will have an opinion on one side or the other, and none of them are interested in finding out that the other side is right.

            So it will take a group of people who are neutral on the topic (or professional enough to act that way at work), yet interested enough to do the work, and respected enough for their results are taken seriously by anyone else. Eventually it will happen but it will no longer matter. The current factors and realities will have all changed by then and the problems of that day will be different. The problems of today will have run their course without benefit of ever actually knowing the anwer to this question.

      • 10xDev 2 hours ago ago
        • bryanlarsen 2 hours ago ago

          How does a study about the US have anything to do with Japan or Korea?

    • squidbeak 3 hours ago ago

      This doesn't sound right. How do you explain places like Utah?

      (Not that Mormon voting was ever directed by Japanese mating habits. But you get my point.)

  • frangonf 2 hours ago ago

    > And other outlets for sexual desire were more acceptable, for example fictosexuality: the expression of romantic or sexual feelings towards fictional characters.

    > A 2017 survey of Japanese students aged 16–22 found that 14–17 per cent of them admitted to having romantic feelings towards a character in a video game or anime.

    TIL about the name of this phenomenon. I see this always in the context of "terminal online anime fan" but it made me think and look into other occurrences of similar parasocial behavior like the early Sherlock Holmes fandom.

    With this current social and tech trends I think we are going to see more Pygmalionic SexBots startups in next cohorts.

    • cowlevel 2 hours ago ago

      The name doesn't really mean anything though. "Sexual attraction to a fictional character" and "fictosexuality" are the exact same word, one is just shorter. You can make up a word to shorten anything. Maintaining milk in your fridge can be called lactostasis.

  • tfwnopmt 4 hours ago ago

    It's because they become wizards if they're virgins at 30

  • rayiner an hour ago ago

    With birth rates collapsing around the world in completely different cultures, why isn’t anyone looking hard at the pollution angle?

    • Balgair an hour ago ago

      Because we don't see that decline in other animals in the same environments as the humans.

      • rayiner an hour ago ago

        The animals aren’t eating the same processed food, etc.

  • Cloudef 3 hours ago ago

    They are, but nobodys making kids

    • charcircuit 2 hours ago ago

      Japan has the highest birth rate in East Asia.

  • Hitton 2 hours ago ago

    I think the answer is obvious - after spending years watching pixelated pornography, their fantasy fueled expectations reach extreme heights and are subsequently disappointed by the real deal.

  • cowlevel 3 hours ago ago

    Mammals in captivity rarely breed.

    • marginalia_nu an hour ago ago

      Yeah this is why it's such a pain in the ass to produce dairy products. Have to find a wild pregnant cow and capture it, then throw away the calf before it drinks all the milk.

  • undefined 3 hours ago ago
    [deleted]
  • iammjm 2 hours ago ago

    I blame digital entertainment. It really is so much easier and less risky to just stare at a screen instead of going out and interacting with people. Cheaper too. And quicker. And a near-100% success rate guaranteed. Like it is actually possible to opt out of most activities and instead burn through your life in front of the screens. It actually requires actual effort and resources in order not to - this is increasingly becoming the default. And it is not the Japanese which are at risk. Each one of us is at risk and the problem will only get worse as the digital entertainment improves while many aspects of the "real-life" get wiped out or locked behind an unattainable paywall due to climate destruction, high fuel prices, inflation, lack of people in service roles, or the lack of people to interact with (because they too are at home speedrunning their lives with their entertainment of choice).

    • expedited123 20 minutes ago ago

      Pretty much. Porn is also getting better and more varied, filling more niches people have. And by porn I don't mean the things you only see on pornhub and from professional studios. Anything that gets you off.

      Have you guys seen how beautiful some of the women in Kpop are? Not only that, but they are also idols, meaning they have a strong presence on social media (post pictures, shorts), appear on variety shows, interact with fans through all sorts of fanmeets, online services and so on... They make fans feel like they have a relationship with them. After an event/concert you can usually easily find 4K fancams of the idol. They fill that gap both emotionally and sexually as they're really lovely girls. Japan also has a strong idol culture, although it's not as popular as Korea's internationally.

      Then there's things like onlyfans, live-streamers and so on... Of course people are having less sex. On top of what you said of people just generally choosing to interact less because of the amount of digital entertainment. 50 years ago if you didn't get of your house the most entertainment you would have is probably books or TV, situation is wildly different these days. With AI probably gonna get even worse.

      All that said, I don't think it's necessarily bad. But for future generations human interaction won't be the default anymore. They will have toto re-discover the value of that interaction.

    • cowlevel 2 hours ago ago

      It's probably this. Same in the West too.

  • hsuduebc2 2 hours ago ago

    I honestly believe our parents and grandparents were right all along. It's the damn computers and phones. Ironically, some of them have had their brains more scrambled by technology than the average Gen Z kid.

    I would speculate that people can fulfill their need of intimacy online which results in lowered incentive to persuade it in real life.

    • jeanpah 2 hours ago ago

      In real life there are social and legal implications for relationships: if something goes wrong You could be in a nightmare divorce or simply interpreting things wrong with somebody can cause problems in your life. In the modern world every error pays expesively.

      But in the digital world You just swap apps, nobody judges, and You alway get dopamine.

      • hsuduebc2 2 hours ago ago

        Our half baked monkey brains are certainly not suited for last decades technologies.

  • chrisjj 2 hours ago ago

    > And this national dry spell seems to have got worse

    Hmm. Did the subjects say worse?

  • deadbabe 2 hours ago ago

    Sex isn’t as sexy as it used to be, has little appeal. Our world today is filled with far more interesting things.

    • mcphage an hour ago ago

      > Our world today is filled with far more interesting things.

      More interesting than each other?

    • cindyllm 2 hours ago ago

      [dead]

  • Lucasoato 3 hours ago ago

    If you use marijuana (not posses, just use) you can risk up to 7 years in jail.

    Legalize it, organize free rock and roll parties with no phone policy every weekend, see sex and pregnancy rates go sky high in the matter of months.

    This and maybe prosecute a parent when he/she kidnaps the children, denying visits or any interaction with the other parent.

    Do both please.

    • lesostep an hour ago ago

      Anecdotally alcohol also had the same function, but people just started drinking less

    • buddhistdude 2 hours ago ago

      Better legalize MDMA then

      • cowlevel 2 hours ago ago

        I've heard about that. They say it makes you love everyone (empathetically rather than sexually) which does sound useful in developing social skills for us internet addicts.

        • buddhistdude 3 minutes ago ago

          A friend of mine has heard of it too. He says it doesn't really last after the high though unfortunately

  • cladopa 3 hours ago ago

    It probably has something to do with the need to touch someone first.

    Japanese people really hate physical contact, or any contact by the way.

    • xrd 44 minutes ago ago

      That's interesting.

      I remember when I lived in Japan and was with my male friend visiting temples. I was 21 years old and I'm male. At one point he grabbed my hand to direct me to a temple and didn't immediately let go. I felt strange because in the US that would be misconstrued.

      Are you sure Japanese people hate physical contact? I never really considered whether that's true or not.

    • jonnybgood 2 hours ago ago

      Are you Japanese and can be provide more insight? I ask because it's common online by non-Japanese (especially on places like Reddit) to make wild generalizations about who Japanese people are because they visited Japan once for a week or want to visit Japan someday.

      In my experience of having lived in Japan, I find this simply not true. Of course this is my own anecdata. Physical contact, from my experience, is seen as a more intimate gesture. It depends on the nature of the relationship. In places like America, lots of people would give a hug (at the very least a one arm hug) to their friends when they're parting ways. Japanese don't do that ever from what I've seen, they'll just wave goodbye to each other. But I have seen plenty of hugging, hand holding, and other public displays of affection among those who are intimate.

  • greatgib 2 hours ago ago

    [dead]

  • decremental 3 hours ago ago

    [dead]

  • spottedmarley 4 hours ago ago

    Maybe sex with another human, sure, but sex with robots is definitely on the rise.

  • simianwords 3 hours ago ago

    Is it because of hypergamy?

    Downvoted. but in time it will be clear whats likely the cause of this