Having used D1 in production - it's not very reliable. There was a comment on HN from one of D1 devs [1] saying that D1 is a sql wrapper on top of durable objects that mimicks sqlite distributed like nature.
> I'll let you in on a sort of dirty secret:
It's almost always better to use Durable Objects storage, rather than D1. Even if you only want a single global database, it's better to implement that as a singleton Durable Object, than by using D1. Because that's all D1 itself actually is: a singleton Durable Object that exposes an API to its SQLite database. It's just a wrapper.
D1 also gives read replication and point in time recovery, but my biggest issue with it is you can’t create D1 dbs dynamically like you can with durable objects so things like tenancy are harder
Its funny, when I was reading part time parliament paper (paxos) and while learning zig and odin language created a pure paxos library and then the first application for that library was to build a multi-master sqlite. The two approaches I took are very different in case of zig I build zaxonlite (https://github.com/insanai/zaxonlite) and have a benchmark on it that includes rqlite. It uses WAL replication as strategy. The second attempt I tried in odin is sqlodin (https://github.com/insanai/sqlodin), in this the system does not use WAL but run sql query on each node, as result subset of sql query in sqlite are not supported.
The comparisons between various projects, including between rqlite and Litestream, were interesting. (rqlite uses a consensus algorithm between nodes to keep them synced and allow changing the primary node, while Litestream just syncs itself to S3 so another node could take over with the data from there.)
I fully expected the article to get into D1 shortly and mention how that's about the same relationship between Cloudflare Durable Objects (which D1 is based on) and celld, an open source reimplementation of Cloudflare Durable Objects which writes to S3. But then the article treats D1 with a very sudden snarky disinterest, and then the final section feels very awkwardly defensive of rqlite and defeatist.
https://github.com/punnerud/mpedb is not there yet, focused on sync between sqlite3, Postgresql and Oracle. Shown that concurrent writes to sqlite3 is possible at the speed of Postgresql
(My own project)
It's loaded with it to my eyes. (Pangram also agrees and flags the whole post as AI generated.)
# 2014: rqlite
The need was concrete.
# Before 2014, and alongside it
Two things deserve mention for honesty’s sake.
[...] and the main difference is of one of packaging:
# What the twelve years show
Three things, I think.
The core was right. [...] Nobody has found a reason to stop doing it.
The design space has three corners, and they appeared in order.
(What order? The corners of this design space, which aren't spelled out until the following sentence, don't have any natural ordering. This type of misapplied flourish feels very typical of LLMs.)
Seems fair to me. The VC-backed SQLite services have been shouting about their services as if they came up with the idea, and this only balances that out.
He's right that histories start too late, and I'd like to see more posts like this that trace the history back further than the last 5 years. Like for databases, a lot can go back 20+ years and it's good to read how the idea came about (independently from many people), how it developed over time and why.
"Honesty" is what crossed the threshold for me. It's pretty weird to spend 12 years on something and not bother to write the thousand word history yourself.
As someone who loved sqlite and the simplicity, the truth is that with agents I am finding it is extremely easy to manage postgres and it is realyl nice having all the SQL features of postgres -- sqlite is quite limiting in a lot of SQL. So if you are considering remote sqlite and all that, feels a better time than ever to just use a database server.
Of course, sqlite is amazing for local tools etc.
I know that latest rails suggests SQLite as one of the production options. I don’t get how it’d work with concurrent access though. Time to look into it.
I maintain one of the client libraries for rqlite - I’ve found it an excellent concept really well implemented. One of my favourite bits is it gives you back json making Dapper-like mapping super easy in .NET and I suspect other languages.
Having used D1 in production - it's not very reliable. There was a comment on HN from one of D1 devs [1] saying that D1 is a sql wrapper on top of durable objects that mimicks sqlite distributed like nature.
> I'll let you in on a sort of dirty secret: It's almost always better to use Durable Objects storage, rather than D1. Even if you only want a single global database, it's better to implement that as a singleton Durable Object, than by using D1. Because that's all D1 itself actually is: a singleton Durable Object that exposes an API to its SQLite database. It's just a wrapper.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48611834
D1 also gives read replication and point in time recovery, but my biggest issue with it is you can’t create D1 dbs dynamically like you can with durable objects so things like tenancy are harder
Completely. D1 flaky as hell!
Its funny, when I was reading part time parliament paper (paxos) and while learning zig and odin language created a pure paxos library and then the first application for that library was to build a multi-master sqlite. The two approaches I took are very different in case of zig I build zaxonlite (https://github.com/insanai/zaxonlite) and have a benchmark on it that includes rqlite. It uses WAL replication as strategy. The second attempt I tried in odin is sqlodin (https://github.com/insanai/sqlodin), in this the system does not use WAL but run sql query on each node, as result subset of sql query in sqlite are not supported.
The comparisons between various projects, including between rqlite and Litestream, were interesting. (rqlite uses a consensus algorithm between nodes to keep them synced and allow changing the primary node, while Litestream just syncs itself to S3 so another node could take over with the data from there.)
I fully expected the article to get into D1 shortly and mention how that's about the same relationship between Cloudflare Durable Objects (which D1 is based on) and celld, an open source reimplementation of Cloudflare Durable Objects which writes to S3. But then the article treats D1 with a very sudden snarky disinterest, and then the final section feels very awkwardly defensive of rqlite and defeatist.
Is there a project that does all of these together?
- embeddable like sqlite
- clustered like dqlite
- has a standalone node like rqlite
- can be backed up to S3 like litesteeam
- optionally AP like cr-sqlite alongside CP
https://github.com/punnerud/mpedb is not there yet, focused on sync between sqlite3, Postgresql and Oracle. Shown that concurrent writes to sqlite3 is possible at the speed of Postgresql (My own project)
This sounds a lot like Apache Ignite 2.x, though it does not have SQLite's level of polish.
If you don't get any joy out of writing about your personal experiences in your own voice, why bother writing about them at all?
I get zero LLM vibes from this blog post.
It's loaded with it to my eyes. (Pangram also agrees and flags the whole post as AI generated.)
(What order? The corners of this design space, which aren't spelled out until the following sentence, don't have any natural ordering. This type of misapplied flourish feels very typical of LLMs.)There are a bunch but in my opinion not conclusive.
Kinda grating to have the story of your project told in default Claudese, to be honest.
Was a fun read until the end where the author made damn sure that history records who drew the blueprint.
Seems fair to me. The VC-backed SQLite services have been shouting about their services as if they came up with the idea, and this only balances that out.
He's right that histories start too late, and I'd like to see more posts like this that trace the history back further than the last 5 years. Like for databases, a lot can go back 20+ years and it's good to read how the idea came about (independently from many people), how it developed over time and why.
"Honesty" is what crossed the threshold for me. It's pretty weird to spend 12 years on something and not bother to write the thousand word history yourself.
As someone who loved sqlite and the simplicity, the truth is that with agents I am finding it is extremely easy to manage postgres and it is realyl nice having all the SQL features of postgres -- sqlite is quite limiting in a lot of SQL. So if you are considering remote sqlite and all that, feels a better time than ever to just use a database server. Of course, sqlite is amazing for local tools etc.
I've been looking for a reason to use rqlite, but so far sqlite + litestream have been safe enough (some dataloss acceptable in extreme cases)
My understanding is that rqlite gives you "stored in more than place" guarantees, which is nice if you need it. Much slower than a 1 node db though.
So, has this been Jepsen-tested yet?
Because if it hasn't, it's likely there are problems lurking.
I have never examined this in any detail before. It looks far easier than the mass majority of clustered database architectures.
https://rqlite.io/
using it for control layer pretty happy so far
can you query the local rqlite, or do you always have to go to the leader?
docs - Queries, by default, are also serviced by the cluster Leader.
it is great, fun, easy.
How long have you been using it? I've always been disappointed with similar systems, etcd including.
I know that latest rails suggests SQLite as one of the production options. I don’t get how it’d work with concurrent access though. Time to look into it.
Can use one sqlite per tenant or look into the new multi writer lib on github.
This one? https://github.com/sqliteai/sqlite-multiwriter
Wal or wal2 can help you with that.
I maintain one of the client libraries for rqlite - I’ve found it an excellent concept really well implemented. One of my favourite bits is it gives you back json making Dapper-like mapping super easy in .NET and I suspect other languages.
We use rqlite in production, it's the database we chose for (the control plane of) an open source observability solution we're building (morio.it).
Just came here to say two things:
- rqlite is amazing and warmly recommend - Philip is an exceptionally dedicated, kind, and helpful maintainer
5 stars, no notes. Thank you Philip, I'm eternally grateful for all your great work.
There is also hctree from sqlite.
Like the idea of distributed SQLite, but do we have benchmark? What use cases it has advantage?
Very timely for me. I run dqlite in a small cluster and I'm looking to move off it to something more robust. What's recommended in this regime?
What kind of issues did you run into?
Loads of '500 database locked' errors. https://github.com/canonical/dqlite/issues/908