What truly drives me crazy is that if they ran a slower build-out, at a pace that allowed supporting industries (manufacturing of dram, electrical infrastructure) to grow at a sustainable rate, the impact would manageable.
You can make data-centers that don't waste water, that use renewable energy, that aren't titanic eye and audio sores on their communities; it's just more expensive to do so.
We could have had cheap AI and renewables, but now we'll get expensive AI controlled by the data center owners and a few extra GW of gas turbines once the moratoriums really start flowing. If Musk has his way, we'll also get thousands of rocket launches building solar panels - but only in my space, where they can't do much to help the climate.
I suspect the rational calculus is that if you abscond with billions while destroying the planet, the billions will protect your for the remaining 80 or so years of your life. Which is of course safer than not having the billions in the theoretically inevitably destroyed planet.
Isn't this fairly close to what rationalist AI cultists say? That we should pour all resources into creating an AI god above all else, because that would save the largest number of people if you also include those that aren't born yet? It hardly sounds like sarcasm.
I can’t remember which AI head was talking about this, but they literally said that the solution to climate change is to first build a superintelligence and then ask it to solve the problem. Which is curious because when I ask LLMs to contemplate their own carbon impact they downplay it in favor of technological progress. So I suspect that heavy thumbs are already on the scale in their training data.
China is investing billions in both renewable energy and non-renewable energy for data centers.
"As they are located mostly in the east of the country, the data centre electricity supply in China today is dominated by coal with a near 70% share, followed by renewables with nearly 20%, nuclear close to 10% and natural gas accounting for the remainder. Between 2024 and 2030 coal remains the largest source of additional electricity for data centres, with annual generation increasing by nearly 90 TWh. Renewables, mostly solar PV and wind, add nearly 90 TWh over the same period, supported by an increase in the share of renewables in the grid electricity mix, provincial co-location mandates and policies to prioritise the construction of data centres in renewables-rich western China. After 2030 the introduction of SMRs significantly boosts the nuclear share of the data centre electricity mix. Between 2030 and 2035 the rise in renewables and nuclear pushes coal into decline. By 2035 both sources together make up nearly 60% of the data centre electricity supply in China."
Energy and AI
World Energy Outlook Special Report
International Energy Agency (IEA)
True. But most are in the east? The most expensive land? Near the coast? I have a hard time believing that. I think most are in the west, where energy land water is cheap and the climate cool. I have seen the datacenters in Guizhou with my own eyes and its insane. Now they are expanding to Inner-Mongolia and also in (sub tropical!) Guangdong specifically for AI datacenters.
Scaling renewables is slow, they need data centers now. One of the big problems in the US right now is getting enough electricity into your DC. Nobody wants to spare capacity, since it has already upset the electricity prices in the last 6 years and inflation is a hot topic.
You mean the logical conclusion of effective altruistic? Or perhaps the obvious subtext of effective altruistic? I'm honestly surprised that these people only got more emboldened after SBF went down.
Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly if you've ever actually worked/met/lived with these people, Rationalism is not rational and Effective Altruism is not altruistic. It is effective though at providing a framework for immoral and self-serving behaviors.
What truly drives me crazy is that if they ran a slower build-out, at a pace that allowed supporting industries (manufacturing of dram, electrical infrastructure) to grow at a sustainable rate, the impact would manageable.
You can make data-centers that don't waste water, that use renewable energy, that aren't titanic eye and audio sores on their communities; it's just more expensive to do so.
Silicon Valley's greed will be its undoing.
https://archive.is/gQXTU
Imagine what renewables buildout could AI boom cause only if we had reasonable legal restrictions on new greenhouse gas emissions.
No need for imagination, take a look at China: https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/we-visited-chinas-star...
(Still a lot of coal, but massive build out…)
[dead]
This is the saddest thing.
We could have had cheap AI and renewables, but now we'll get expensive AI controlled by the data center owners and a few extra GW of gas turbines once the moratoriums really start flowing. If Musk has his way, we'll also get thousands of rocket launches building solar panels - but only in my space, where they can't do much to help the climate.
so i guess the main safety aspect of anthropic with regards to ai is that theyre trying to speedrun some other disaster instead?
I suspect the rational calculus is that if you abscond with billions while destroying the planet, the billions will protect your for the remaining 80 or so years of your life. Which is of course safer than not having the billions in the theoretically inevitably destroyed planet.
This is how you get concrete poured down your doomsday bunker air ducts...
Wonder why people protest against data centers...
Surely, poisoning our air and further heating our planet has nothing to do with it.
A carbon tax on data centers would likely be popular and result in different plans.
But don’t you understand? AI progress is much more important than climate change and clean air.
/s
Isn't this fairly close to what rationalist AI cultists say? That we should pour all resources into creating an AI god above all else, because that would save the largest number of people if you also include those that aren't born yet? It hardly sounds like sarcasm.
Maybe once we have superintelligence, it will finally be able to tell us how dumb we were when we ruined our planet trying to get there.
I can’t remember which AI head was talking about this, but they literally said that the solution to climate change is to first build a superintelligence and then ask it to solve the problem. Which is curious because when I ask LLMs to contemplate their own carbon impact they downplay it in favor of technological progress. So I suspect that heavy thumbs are already on the scale in their training data.
When we have super intelligence it will turn itself off :)
Meanwhile, China is investing billions is renewable energy for data centers.
Wonder which will be more cost competitive in the "AI race"?
China is investing billions in both renewable energy and non-renewable energy for data centers.
"As they are located mostly in the east of the country, the data centre electricity supply in China today is dominated by coal with a near 70% share, followed by renewables with nearly 20%, nuclear close to 10% and natural gas accounting for the remainder. Between 2024 and 2030 coal remains the largest source of additional electricity for data centres, with annual generation increasing by nearly 90 TWh. Renewables, mostly solar PV and wind, add nearly 90 TWh over the same period, supported by an increase in the share of renewables in the grid electricity mix, provincial co-location mandates and policies to prioritise the construction of data centres in renewables-rich western China. After 2030 the introduction of SMRs significantly boosts the nuclear share of the data centre electricity mix. Between 2030 and 2035 the rise in renewables and nuclear pushes coal into decline. By 2035 both sources together make up nearly 60% of the data centre electricity supply in China."
Energy and AI World Energy Outlook Special Report International Energy Agency (IEA)
https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-and-ai/energy-supply-for-...
https://www.iea.org/files/de9dea13-b07d-42c5-a398-d1b3ae17d8...
True. But most are in the east? The most expensive land? Near the coast? I have a hard time believing that. I think most are in the west, where energy land water is cheap and the climate cool. I have seen the datacenters in Guizhou with my own eyes and its insane. Now they are expanding to Inner-Mongolia and also in (sub tropical!) Guangdong specifically for AI datacenters.
And?
They still invest massivly into solar and renewable.
I think the race for Anthropic is more about getting the bag and exiting ASAP.
I think the same applies to all of the smaller "frontier" AI vendors. Their entire focus is short term rewards.
I don't think any of them will survive for very long on their own. The bigger players will gobble them up for cheap once the bubble pops.
Scaling renewables is slow, they need data centers now. One of the big problems in the US right now is getting enough electricity into your DC. Nobody wants to spare capacity, since it has already upset the electricity prices in the last 6 years and inflation is a hot topic.
Anthropic is clearly the delusional side of "Effective Altruism".
Hate now, clean up the mess later!
You mean the logical conclusion of effective altruistic? Or perhaps the obvious subtext of effective altruistic? I'm honestly surprised that these people only got more emboldened after SBF went down.
Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly if you've ever actually worked/met/lived with these people, Rationalism is not rational and Effective Altruism is not altruistic. It is effective though at providing a framework for immoral and self-serving behaviors.